I had a very funny Google alert come up today. It took me to the site of the Lib Dem MP for Hazel Grove. On this site this MP claims to have been a pupil at Surbiton “Grammar” School.
I have no reason to doubt his claim but I have never heard of it. Does anyone else know the history of this school. He must have been there in the late 50’s/early 60’s.
Was it Surbiton High School in an earlier incarnation?
When you Google it there is only one reference for a very funny list of names with some pretty dubious characters on. See it here
485 Comments
May 2, 2007 at 7:01 am
[...] Iain Dale’s Diary: More LibDem Lies on Who’s Standing Where May 2, 2007 Posted by Kevin Davis in Lib Dems. trackback The self-righteous Lib Dems have been caught out lying again. This from a Lib Dem MP who claims to have attended Surbiton Grammar School. [...]
May 3, 2007 at 5:46 pm
it is now Esher College – in Thames Ditton.
It was Surbiton (boys) Grammar til about 1973 then briefly Esher Grammar before the 11 plus was dropped in Surrey LEA.
When Surrey went comprehensive it became the co-ed 6th form college around 77.
It was attended by boys from north Surrey as well as Surbiton.
Old Surbitonians had a sports ground in Cobham but it is now just known as Cobham Sports Assoc/ Rugby club.
June 25, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Eric Claton was once a pupil at Surbiton Grammar School, I once had a teacher who had taught him and told us that whenever Clapton would go missing, which was often, he would be found asleep in the Stables……….
June 25, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Eric Clapton was once a pupil at Surbiton Grammar School, I once had a teacher who had taught him and told us that whenever Clapton would go missing, which was often, he would be found asleep in the Stables……….
November 18, 2007 at 2:41 pm
I went to Surbiton Grammar. It was initially at St Marks Hill in Surbiton, but moved to Thames Ditton in the mids 60’s. it was well known for a lot things sadly illegal these days.
March 1, 2008 at 8:54 pm
My father was transferred to the UK for a year in 1956 and we lived in Surbiton. When he went to enrol me at the local school (presumably, the one you are asking about), he was not impressed and enrolled me, instead, at St Helen’s at Thames Ditton. Anybody know what happened to St Helen’s – it had only three classes to teach children from ages 5 to 18?
March 10, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Having said that, no self respecting Old Surbitonian would describe it as Surbiton Grammar
Never heard it described as less than Surbiton County Grammar
Either an imposter or sloppy. Surbitonians didn’t do sloppy.
March 27, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I was a pupil at Surbiton Grammar from aged 11 till 18 years 1955 to 1962. The school was at the top of Surbiton Hill, headmaster Doig, deputy Baker. When I first went there the school was comprised of three buildings and their grounds and outbuildings. The physical houses were Braemar, Aysgarth and Shool house. Shortly after I went to the school Aysgarth was demolished and Braemar sometime later and replaced by ” modern ” purpose built units. School house is still there and forms part of what is now Hollyfield school. The stables block is still there and was my 6th form classroom. The school houses were Coutts (red), Lovelace (purple), Villiers (pale blue) and Egmont (pale green). I was in Egmont. I had a wonderful time at this school and look back with fond memories.
April 6, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Roger, I have fond memories of the old school. I might have been in your class. I was in Egmont. I remember several of the old teachers, including Lonsdale “when the day dawns and the shadows flee away!!” Tony Arbour was a fellow pupil – saw him on TV last year – he was a Richmond councillor who ended up on the GLA as transport spokesman. Do you remember the Gilbert & Sullivan productions? There are a few messages on FriendsReunited. Chris Stickland
May 4, 2008 at 9:42 am
aaagh! stickland and- taylor names to make a man grab for his cross and garlic!!!!!
yes it was fun- what a pity education is wasted on the young. sad to think that so many of those we knew are now in the great detention room in the sky. perhaps those who aren’t would sign in? dave littleproud-lovelace 1956-1964
May 4, 2008 at 3:17 pm
1956 TO 1964 SCGS headmaster was A.J. Doig. Deputy was A.J. Forward fondly known as “Bert”.
June 11, 2008 at 3:36 am
Well, just shows what turns up when you idly google! I was at Surbiton County Grammar School from1945 to 1950.
The headmaster was AGF Willis. Though he was physically small I remember him as a very imposing presence in public but very courteous, kind and gentle in private.
Roger Taylor’s comment above reminded me of the names of the houses and their colours and I have been trying to remember the name of some of the masters.
I remember Mr Hayward an English teacher who was also involved with the amateur dramatic society at the school which I also took part in, always in female roles.
There was also another English teacher whose nickname was ‘Keats’ though I cannot remember his proper name.
I would be interested if there is anyone else of my vintage who can flesh out a few more details.
I left when I turned 16.
John Walters
I now live in Australia.
June 30, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Dear John Walters
I was at Surbiton County Grammar School from 1956 until 1964(don’t ask!!)- sometime after you . Ido remember the headmaster before my A.J.Doig was a A ?? Willis.
Teachers- here goes!!!
Aj Doig HM
A J Forwood deputy hm-history and lR.I.
H.D.L. Dyer (Dan) Maths
Aj Hayward English and RI
J Lonsdale (Jock) french
A W Rigden (Slug) history latin
A Bolt (Nutty) English
Eddie Watkins maths and woodwork
Dr Turner (Scum) Chemistry and R I
?? Turner Chemistry-Young guy
J Turner (Holy Joe) Art
J Skene (Jack) geography
J Bath (Jim) Geography–I remember him telling us that but for Eisenhower he could have driven his tank all the way to Berlin!!!
K Bidmead (Ken) Latin
?? Cox (Pip) Biology
J Cocks (Keats) english- music
A J HilIler (Gus) maths
S C Capper (Sid) French
?? Davis (Taffy) Biology
??Morris (Mo) biology
W Busby (Buzzer -Uncle Bill) art-a lovely man
Mrs Gamble secretary
?? Fry P E
J Harvey art
J Heymans (Slash) history
J Fernyhough (Fred) french
??Stubbings English
??? Rose science
G Harris-Ide (Geoff) english latin
??Smith Science
Most if not all also taught games
Dave Littleproud
July 29, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Here is some history which proves what I know to be true as my husband was there from 1945 to 1953.
http://www.cobhamrfc.com/history.htm
Hope this helps.
September 9, 2008 at 11:46 pm
My father was transferred to London in 1964 and both myself and my older brother went to Surbiton County Grammar until our return to Australia in 1968. We were there when the school moved from the top of the hill at Surbiton to Thames Ditton. I well remember the teachers we had like Mr Capper (Sid), Mr Hillier and for forget our remarkable R.I. teacher Scum (Mr Turner I think although he seemed proud of his nick name because, as he often said, he was a very good scummer. Some of my fellow classmates were Colin Talmadge, Lee Richardson, John Wiseman And Phillip Swan.
November 8, 2008 at 10:28 pm
A great pity Surbiton Grammar School was closed down and the old buldings destroyed. I recently passed the new buildings which have been constructed; the windows were all covered by thick metal mesh, the buildings had the appearance of a prison. I was at the school from 1956 and left with 2 “O” levels. My best recollection from those days was the cross country race. The grounds behind School house were magnificent. The Gilbert & Sullivan productions were very professional. Pity those days are long passed. Robin Hendy – lovelace 1956- 1962
November 12, 2008 at 3:42 am
no idea why but just googled Surbiton County Gramar school, and up popped this blog. Was there from ‘52-59. A few memories still remain, and thanks to John Walters now again the teachers names. Mo Morris walking round the biology class and thumping us on the head with a rubber bunsen burner hose; Davis and his love or rugby-the trip to the south west of France and northern Spain to play school teams there , smoking Gauloise on the night train from Paris, and never smoking ever again, playing in the Pirates of Penzance; someone dumping sodium metal in the toilets, in what I imagine were the old stables, and eruptions of water blowing out of the bowls onto unsuspecting sitters; Jock Lonsdale taking us to Switzerland, and instead of by train, a first flight for most of us from Blackbush in a Vickers Viking; baths at the sports field (no showers) and if you were the last in just a muddy lukewarm affair. Had a good time there, even though they worked us hard. Finished and went to King’s College Durham in Newcastle ( what a great town), stayed 7 years for a Ph. D. (beat working) and then emigrated to the US.
A Coutts boy-seem to remember we often won the top house cup!!!
November 16, 2008 at 7:38 pm
I arrived in September 1964, was allocated to Villiers House and a form room in the “new” science block. We all decamped to Long Ditton in September 1965 and a new and progressive Head to go with the wonderful new buildings.
Dave Littleproud’s list of staff brought back some memories…to add a few more…
Hackett (Chopper) Chemistry
Bas (Ek) Hunt, Latin
Colin “Tree” Attree, ? Biology
Jo Turner, Art – from the Stables
“Herr Pfifer” – German and the subject of a nasty bit of racist abuse in the summer of 65 when one day all the dinner money (collected at the table every day) was offered in pennies and halfpennies, just because he was Jewish.
Well, I left in 1970 with reasonable A Levels, went up to Uni and managed a vaguely respectable degree. Still in contact with a hand-full of my year.
November 16, 2008 at 9:03 pm
My goodness … stumbled on this blog from Cyprus one balmy evening in November. So many names, so many memories, not many that good unfortunately. No good at rugby or opera so that left me a bit of an outsider. Fortunately could run fast so managed to avoid the ‘holly bush’ initiation!
Now just about retired but hanging in there to keep my brain ticking over. Still in touch with Tony ‘Tufty’ Hall after all these years. Any ‘Old Surbs’ in Cyprus?
November 18, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Let us hope others discover this blog and keep it going; and apologies to David Littleproud in not correctly crediting him for the teachers names. How did you remember so long ago? amazing, I can’t remember what day of the week it is!
Further reminices: A school dance, can’t think we had that many. Since no girls toilet, Doig donated his private one. On Monday morning when he went to use it, found a condom in there-perhaps that was the last dance we had. What would now be called a pipe bomb, place in a crevice in the playground wall, loud noise but not much damage. At least someone was paying attention in the chemistry class. As Robin Hendy said the grounds were truly magnificent-probably wasted on us neanderthals. The older boys and therefore bigger ones were placed together in the same stream-probably when in the L5, they loved to line up and clear the grounds of all us smaller fry-prefects just watched.
Seem to remember that Turner got his nickname because when we wound him up in RI, which was as often as we could, he would bounce around the class calling us a “bunch of filthy scum”
What memories-keep it going.
Only in contact with one friend from those days-and that was because the blog got me to do some detective work. Keith Piggott, a year behind me, but a friend before Surbiton. Went to Camborne School of mines, and of course had to leave the UK when he was finished at college. Years in Zambia (think still Northern Rhodesia when he went there), then OZ, up in Cairns gold mining. Now a successful gold mining executive in Mexico, with interests in other countries as well. We hope to meet up in Tucson, Az in the near future. We can the reminisce about our favorite pub, The Swan in Thames Ditton, now a shadow of its former self. Then a free house (rare), with 2 full sized snooker tables, a parrot and wonderful sausages. The good times!!
Colin Munday
November 19, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Attended 1962 – 69
remember many of the teachers named plus
‘Zoro’ Zetter – History
‘Bomber’ Lancaster – french; what imagination!
we called Gus Hillier ‘Ted’ corporal punishment specialist; deputy head in my day.
remember motor bikes in assembly; sadistic prefects; great Xmas lunches, a lot of freedom in the 6th and overall a great time
Chris ex Coutt
November 21, 2008 at 2:23 am
The name Hillier brings back memories of him walking around in the math class and randomly and for no reason swatting us on the back of the head with a wooden ruler-I’m sure it was all legal in those days. He was a certified sadist, but must admit he taught me a lot of math.
Is there ever a gathering of Old Surbitonians, or are alumni events purely a U.S. invention and regular occurrence?
Colin Munday
November 25, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I was at Surbiton County Grammar 1951-1955.
One master I remember, not mentioned thus far, was Mr Boskovitch ( Bosky). He took Latin I think, or Maths, or possibly both.He was unfortunately cross eyed which made it difficult to tell when he was berating you or someone else. I was in Coutts and being a below average scholar I left at 16 from form 5G. ( I was told that the 5th form was usually 5A (Arts) or 5S (Science) but that year there were so many dismal scholars they established 5G (General). I played cricket for the Old Surbs at Cobham for a while. I seem vaguely to remember that Mr Bidmead later became Mayor of Surbiton. I still live near the school and it is a pale shadow of the grandeur that we all knew.
November 26, 2008 at 2:02 pm
My memories think that it was Sid Capper who was called bosky because of his cross eye. He taught french and had a very high rate of saliva production. Unfortunately in our youth we used to make fun of him; his class control was very weak. But as we sought of matured we then called him Sid. He was a nice man.
Can anyone confirm my memory or is it failing as I suspect.
Colin Munday, located in South Eastern Pennsylvania.
November 26, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Dear Colin,
I was at Surbiton County Grammar from 1952 – 57.
I have no idea why I looked up Surbiton County Grammar but delighted to find that others had too. I believe that we may have well been in the same class for a while, because your name is familar. Well done to Dave Littleproud for remembering all those names, my memory is limited to A J Doig, Bert Foreman, Alan Bolt, Sid Capper, Scum, Keats and Fry – oh! and Hillier with his ruler!
Paul Range (Coutts) Now in Witterings, Sussex
November 28, 2008 at 9:56 am
Martin, there is nothing wrong with your memory. ‘Sid’ was as you described. As you say a nice man, but probably in the wrong job. Ironically, French turned out to be my best subject but this was down to ‘Jock’ Lonsdale. He ruled by gaining respect but if that didn’t work, sheer terror! A brilliant master, for me anyway.
No-one has yet mentioned Eddie(?) Morgan, who used to ‘coach’ Rugby. No idea if he taught anything else. From my recollection he spent most of each afternoon prostrate on a wooden bench!
Colin Brightwell, Villiers, Woking & Neo Chorio
November 28, 2008 at 4:13 pm
As I mentioned in a previous post; Jock Lonsdale once took us to Switzerland (only the French area of course!!); maybe I think also on a school trip to Paris, as I do remember Versailles, Fontainbleu, etc. He was a great teacher, but took no guff from any of us. He used to say that if we failed “O” level french and then came to him for help, he would say “get behind me Satan” Well I did fail, but thanks to his help I finally passed. Fond memories of a really good teacher and man.
Colin Munday
November 29, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Your memories are better than mine. Hi, Paul Breeze here from Coutts. Left in ‘64 with Doig telling me that, “I had a lot to repay the school.” Hmmm. I got along with Ted Hillier OK – could have been related to the army cadets. We now live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
Regards,
Paul Breeze
December 1, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Now this is really weird-at least to my way of thinking. Latin class with Harris-ide. He gives us a test. Translate this.
Marcus adsum iam forte
Quintus aderat
Struggled for a long time, couldn’t do it. But a couple of brighter (at least in latin) class members could. Was a Harris-ide joke:-
Marcus had some jam for tea
Quintus had a rat.
Now I was either 12 or 13 at the time . Why this still sticks in my mind after all these years is completely beyond my understanding. But I did give up latin as soon as I was allowed!
Colin Munday
December 3, 2008 at 9:54 pm
I empathized with Colin Brightwell about being an outsider. On further consideration I believe the problem was that we all lived so far apart. I had to catch a train and bus from Worcester Park. I remember visiting Roger Rimmer’s house in Oxshott and Maslin ( I think they owned Transatlantic Plastics) His family lived in St George’s Hill Weybridge. I only ever visited their houses once. It wasn’t conducive to making friends ; the distances were too great. They were the only two fellow pupils’ houses I ever visited. I remember visiting Stonehenge with the school. We went by train, I have a recollection of somebody bringing a stone back on the train with us. ( a bit bigger than a rugby ball).
December 4, 2008 at 2:18 pm
I think you are spot on Robin about lack of closeness. I also lived in Worcester Park, geographically more Old Malden. Walked 10 minutes to Malden Manor station, caught train one stop to Tolworth, and then the 406 0r 415 country bus to St. Marks Hill. And what a pain getting home from the playing field. But think I actually enjoyed it. About 15 started to bicycle to school, which took half the time. But the only grammar school options then were Tiffin, Kingston grammar or Epsom-all required bus or train travel.
Cycling was the way we managed to see each other outside of school. No car at home, so up to onself to have an outside social life.
December 20, 2008 at 1:32 am
Well wot alotta memories!!
trouble is Littleprods ’s memories do not pay the rent!
Anyway I guess I’m just one of thse people who remembers useless in formation. No that’s not fair: Iam lucky enough to remember a lot about what was a significant part of my (our) lives. I have spoken to old surbs through friends reunited and I am suprised that they have forgotten such a lot. To show how sad I am I still have some exescise books and some text books -o level maths books which i am trying to get my 16 11/12 son to try. I also have the school magazines published during my time at the school.
I domt’ remember Colin Munday. perhaps he might mention some of his peers particularly the prefects.
I remember- Colin Brightwell, Roger Rimmer,Robin Hendy, Bob Maslen( yes Robin you are right Bob’s parents owned alovely house on the St Georges Hill Estate in Weybridge and Transatlantic Plastics in teddington by the river and itv studios-me, ‘arry Arbour and Mick Hammond worked in the summer of 1961-I learnt a lot there-but not about plastics- although I did nearly lose a finger!) I remember the trip to Stonehenge and Salisbury Cathedral ( Tony(Ernie) Moss caught a mouse in the cloisters) and to Old Sarum.
Paul Breeze was at Kingston Poly a year ahead of me. I had forgotten “Zorro” Zetter,anice man as in deed most of them were. I will agree -Ted Hillier was some form of sadist-one story was that he hhad been prisoner of the Japs and the experience had affected him. “Eddie” Watkins taught woodwork and maths, rode a sit up and beg bike and had apenchant for hitting you with the edge of a steel ruler if you had the temerity to ask questions -things got so bad that a group of us 12 yr old almost compained to the headmaster-we didn’t. “Eddie” also escorted us to Kingston swimming pool-on one occasion Tony Moss was given a galvanised bucket and ordered to swim to the midleof the pool to retrieve some snot that was floating there-every time Tony catches the snot the bucket fills and Tony gets dragged to the bottom of the pool-loses the snot and has to start again – bit like that marvellous story by Victor Borgia.Alan “Nutty” bolt had been a prisoner of the Germans and had run an orchestra in whichever stalag- a nice man.
davidlittleproud@googlemail.com
Be good to hear from you guys
Merry Christmas
Dave Littleproud
December 20, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Looks like I was 4 years ahead of you David, so no wonder you can’t remember me-also think I was pretty forgettable!.
The few names I can recollect are Barry Harris-he was head boy in my last year. “Fanny Price” hooker on the rugby team-he dad was a great supporter; Leonard Eggleston and Clifford Potter. I am sure that over time I will remember some more-but who knows.
A Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all you Old Surbitonians out there in the electronic ether. We are a dying breed, both literally and figuratively!
Keep the thoughts coming
Colin Munday, freezing in Chester County Pennsylvania.
December 22, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I hit the mother load of names. My mother kept nearly everything associated with school, and I inherited them, including notices from Doig about me failing various subjects.
So here goes, my peers in the 6th form-at least those who made it to the prize and award programme in March 1960.
Eric Clement
Peter Davey
Anthony Davis
Leonard Eggleston
A H Green
Barry Harris
Michael Herbert
Peter Hogbin
William Ison
Ian Juniper
John Laing
Anthony Marsh
Frank Nowell
Clifford Potter
David Rickard
Christopher Rumsey
Roy Sage
Peter Saunders
Andrew Thompson
Derek Yalden
Nevile Cruttenden
Colin Herridge
Terence Price
Michael Whalley
Remember a few more faces. Roy Sage a gifted musician. A H Green got into Wadham Oxford-no christian names just intials-perhaps too good for the rest of us hoi polloi. Unfortunately none of the contributors names showed up in progress prizes, Pirates of Penzance programme, etc.
I also have a lot of report cards. Especially liked the comment from my parochial school (Malden) head teacher in 1951. “He is too easily satisfied with his own work”!! Nothing changed over the years!!
Colin Munday, now 12 fahrenheit outside.
December 24, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Iwas looking at myself in the mirror yesterday morning.I saw that I was wearing Grey trousers white shirt,and my deceased father”s Hook and Southborough Bowls club tie,which is identical to my Egmont tie.Not much changed from 46 years ago,so with the thought of SCGS in my head,I found myself reading ablog by Gaffer Munday,freezing in Pennsylvania,while I am in sunny South Carolina.How many of our generation left England? I have great memories of SCGS,Iremember going to a great party at keith Piggots house when in the 6 th form,also remember Phil Lucas making a total fool of himself at the same party.
December 27, 2008 at 10:19 am
Just chanced upon this reference to my name. How amazing that there are people out there who still remember me from those distant days in the biology lab. The list of other teaching staff brought back memories too.
(Colin Attree: staff 1965 – 69
December 30, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Go Surbs Go!!
This site is getting interesting–yeah yeah I know it’s christmas -haven’t we bunch of saddoes better things to do? probably yes, but christmas is atime to think of friends and get gooey. Any way today 30 Dec I had coffee with an old Surb, whose daughter is friends with my daughter -they both go to the same school.
In reply to Colin Munday I remember most of the names on his list-all big boys to me. Keith Masters was headboy during my first year 1956-1957. What happened to John Oborn? a very nice fellow who ran the Christian Union. some time aftwer I left SCGS I bumped into Brian Cresswell in Kingston-by then I was ahead taller!
Anyway Colin you should ask Dave Ashwell if theres any room in Malibu-must be warmer than Pennsylvania.
This year I have had dinner and a pub session with Roger Taylor, first meeting in 40+ plus years, however Rog and I go back before SCGS to primary school(Latchmere). I’v also spoken to Stefan Dreja, Hugh Williams and John Beck.
For Richard Day–was Keith Piggott a chunky rugby player, dark hair that stoodup in a semicrewcut, heavy beard- also worked part time delivering groceries by van for a shop in Berrylands?
A pleasure to know that a former member of staff is around. I wonder what happened to those guys?
It’s true Ihave other things to do!!
Happy New Year to you all and I hope more join in!
All the best
Dave
December 31, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Incredible Surbiton (Villiers) 53 to 60 great place.
Proud to have gone there.
Also greatest rubgy team around, remember Ecclessone and Harris in the centre doing the scissors. Davies the coach, chem master. I played on wing as I was fast on track, 220 and 440 yds, got relegated to seconds after doing a big up and under, under our posts.
I am still in contact with Steve Triggs. lives in Phoenix Arizona, Bob White unfortunately died last year in USA. also was very friendly with Ray Cawthorne and the Aussie Burhop. The “brag” club. Colin Munday and I have recently re established contact.
My mother is still alive and living in the famous party house, 2 weeks I seem to remember, glad you all had fun. I remember mother remarking on her return how clean the house looked. Took two days with lots of mucking in by all to clean the place. The next door neighbours never spilt the beans.
As Colin says I now live in Mexico, still mining, after being in Zambia 10 yrs and Cairns, Oz 20.
I remember Doig and his glasses, Sid Capper and his fag and Fernyhouse, french masters. Also Bidmead, who said that with 12.5% in Latin in the lower fifth, that Latin was not my subject. Wish I had studied it a bit better as would have made it easier in S America. Capt Hillier and Major Lefevre Maths
I was in the G & S operas!!
Happy New Year to All Old Surbs Urbs
Keith Piggott
January 1, 2009 at 7:53 am
I was there during the transition from Surbiton to Thames Ditton (62-69) Remember the G&S operettas well, I was in Patience (chorus), The Mikado (Peep Bo),and Yeoman of the Guard (Kate). We’d put on three performances to full houses each Christmas. The operettas died when the school moved to Thames Ditton and Doig retired.
David Littleproud created much of the scenery for The Mikado, good job Dave…:-)
Chris Rippingale was in my year though I’m not sure we were ever classmates but I have some recollection of him.
To add to the teacher’s list were:
David (Bernie) Shaw math – about the only normal member of the staff
?? Curtis french
R D Major geography and music – assisted “Nutty” Bolt with the G&S operettas
Other things I remember – Ken Bidmead was a Hull City supporter, Bernie Shaw was Brighton and Hove Albion Fan, he commuted from Brighton!
Didn’t play in the rugby team- I was a football fan/player and didn’t like rugby much also had other obligations on weekends (competitive sailing), but I did run in the cross country and athletics teams and was in the school choir.
My first (2B) form teacher was “Sid” Capper. he was just like Mr Magoo, what a riot, the next year it was “Keats” Cocks, he wasn’t any less senile and just as deaf.
In 1962 I would get to school early that I could train spot outside the School entrance above “Surbiton Cutting”. The line there was the last line using steam trains on mainline passenger services in England.
The school changed drastically in character when it moved, it lost it’s sense of tradition.
January 1, 2009 at 4:11 pm
apologies to Keith Piggott for my description of him! I’m quite stunned that “himself” appeared on cue!
I had a felling i had got it wrong and Keith’s email confirmed it. However I am now of the opinion that I was thinking of Harold Picton,who left probably 1959-60?? regarding physical descriptions Bas Hewson was of the opinion that I had a green beard -ah the warped eye of the cartoonist!!
Kind of Will Hartje to give me the credit for the Mikado set -however Imust say that although I was heavily involved the credit for the best part of the set design and painting must go to Howard (Nelly) Neldrett, who was also an accomplished musician being a guitarist with a group called”TheGremlins”.and wowing the audience at a competition with his saxophone playing. Wow that was one sentence.
The other SCGS group was “The Electrons” starring Nick Graham and Dale Wrightson and tall kid with fair hair and glasses.
Happy New Year
Dave Littleproud
January 2, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Colin Munday’s recollection of Jock Lonsdale reminds me of his famous phrase used to excoriate a pupil that mis-pronounced a word – “Forty million Frenchman can’t be wrong” he would bellow as he then gave the correct pronunciation version of the word.
I also recall, after the move to TD, John Junor, a fussy little man with a whiny voice that taught math. I remember one occasion when Steve Spooner turned up late to his class. He was returning to school after a few days absence because his home in West Molesey had been flooded and he had not been able to get to school.
Junor snapped at Spooner “where are your books, boy?” to which Spooner responded with a totally deadpan delivery.. “They’ve been condemned, sir”.
We all cracked up, it was hilarious. Junor had no answer to that one. Spooner’s books had been contaminated by the flood waters and the health authorities declared them unusable…LOL
It was the most original excuse I ever heard during my school years.
January 4, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Some poor kiddy came in with a similar exscuse when hi s mum’s washing machine flooded the kitchen and he stopped to help clear up the flood. “Jack” Skene (geography-in that big room in Braemar)had ajob to keep a straight face!
January 4, 2009 at 10:29 pm
So many memories being stirred up.Masters- Eddie Watkins pretended o teach us Maths in the 2 nd form,ithink he got a free pass because he played for Cardiff when they beat thAll Blacks in 1938.Harris-Ide lived on ahouse boat at Hampton Court.Fred Parrot agreat teacher(english).Alan Cadogan taught biology,and A level botany,also ran Duke of Edinburgh Award Scheme,he told me that I would never make it at University,well ,asI tell my children,Inow have more degrees than a thermometer.Mo Morris taught biology,andzoology,and ran the 2nd xv.Which reminds me I played for the Old Surbs 3rd xv in the early 70’s with no less than 5 Courtneys,also Roger and Conrad King,and Alan Dowsett.Still get a kick out of listening toG&S,remember going to the Railway Tavern after aperformance dressed as a pirate or some such.How strange(queer?)that Doig could pull off an opera at an all boys school.Alan robinson ran the lighting as I recall.He and I were at Edinburgh together,we wre the first to head so far north,although we were joined b y the Kanis brothers and Paul Latham,and my brother in law’s brother David Baldwin ended up further north in Aberdeen. The isolation which was brought about by having such a large cachement area for the school I think was aproblem for all of us , those that lived in my area were Terry Loftus,Ian Scott,Rich Goddard,and David Ashwell.I have lost contact with all but Dave Ashwell,he as already mentioned lives in Malibu,where he paints ,extremely well(who can forget his famous portrait of Edith Bidwell).
January 5, 2009 at 12:26 am
It’s late so I’ll be quick. Richard Day said what alot of memories stirred. We all spent 5 to 7 years on the top of St Marks Hill- in my case one in nine years of my life. Should we not put all of these memories down -it seems sad that all those years should go-the history of SCGS??
January 5, 2009 at 2:49 pm
For Richard Day in particular– for the rest of us in bemusement!! Was this the guy with the steel ruler who tried to teach us maths and woodwork??
He couldn’t have been 40 in 1956??!!
Eddie Watkins
Personal information
Full name Edward Watkins
Date of birth March 2, 1916 (1916-03-02) (age 92)
Place of birth Caerphilly, Wales
Rugby union career
Playing career
Position Lock
Clubs
Bedwas RFC
Cardiff RFC
National team(s) Caps (points)
1935-1939 Flag of Wales Wales[1] 8 (48)
Watkins began his club rugby days with Bedwas before moving to first class side Cardiff. In 1935, Watkins was chosen by Cardiff to face the touring New Zealand team. Cardiff were hoping that a strong pack containing Watkins, Les Spence and Gwyn Williams would give the club an advantage against the All Blacks, but were soundly beaten in an exciting game.[2]
Watkins gained his was first cap for Wales in 1935 again against New Zealand. In a memorable game, Wales turned around a losing scoreline in the last ten minutes to beat the All Balcks 13-12. Watkins was not selected for Wales throughout 1936, but was back for the final two games of the 1937 Home Nations Championship. It was a poor campaign for Wales and Watkins, with Wales losing all matches during the 1937 campaign. Watkins was reselected for the 1938 Championship, playing all three games. The opening game was against England at the Cardiff Arms Park, and under the captaincy of Cardiff team-mate Cliff Jones, Watkins was involved in his first Home Nations victory. In 1939 Watkins took part in his last Home Nations campaign, and although missing the game against Ireland, he was still a member of a Wales Championship winning team as Wilf Wooller’s team lifted the trophey with wins over Ireland and Scotland.
[edit] International games played
Wales[3]
* England 1938, 1939
* Ireland 1937, 1938
* New Zealand 1935
* Scotland 1937, 1938, 1939
January 5, 2009 at 6:35 pm
That is the same Eddie Watkins,he left the school in around 1958 to teach at aschool near Esher.He and Fred Parrot were also in charge of boxing.I last saw Eddie playing squash at Surbiton Squash Club with an equally large genleman,quite asight.Correction as to Dave Ashwells portrait .Itwas of Edith Bidmead.By the way ,it is 85 degrees and sunny inCharleston,S.C.
January 5, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Happy New Year. I am impressed by your memories. I remember Edward Pearce who wanted to become a missionary. A few years later I spoke to him on a chance meeting at Waterloo station. Edward was working for the GLC. I went into the City and came across Keith Swan who was working for Paine Webber’s US arbitrage. Richard Day mentions the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award. I remember the school arranged a sports afternoon to see who would be eligible to enrol in the scheme. I got the Gold Award and received the medal from Prince Philip. I helped with the D of E scheme over the years and when I recount my competitive selection in the fifties, in this all- inclusive world my story is greeted with horror. From memory only, about 10 pupils were selected to enrol in the Award at Bronze level. In those days there was not a D of E scheme for girls.
January 5, 2009 at 10:55 pm
I’m pleased that Robin Hendy made it to the city -I remember him talking about bulls and bears in 3(b??)- he also had a Simplex gear on his bike while the rest of us had Benelux and we all aspired to Campagnolos. Happily shaking Robin’s memories of competitive selection for Dof E I am pleased to say that my daughter is working towards the Gold Award. She also attends a grammar school as did my son, both of them being duly selected at 11+ in 2003 and 2004.
I remember being upset that only sporting types were selected for D of E-still I suppose in the late fifties they were still looking for empire conquering types.I do remember Eddie Pearce-he was related to one of the maths teachers. I also remember Keith Swan. What i do find eerie is tha according to wikipedia Eddie Watkins is still around!! good luck to him -he must have done something right-wish I knew what it was!!
January 9, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Happy New year to all.
I also remember like Richard Day going for a drink in the Railway tavern after a G&S production-but dressed as a policeman. In those great days as long as you had money they would serve you, of course none of us had cars then. Think I was a lager and lime boy in those days. It took me living in Newcas’le before I began to enjoy more worthwile brews, especially Newcastle Brown Ale, or “journey into space” as the geordies called it. That was in March 59, but Richard wasn’t in the program ( I told you my mum kept everything) so Doig must have put that production on again-when was yours Richard?
David Littleproud is spot on in suggesting that all these memories be kept alive. What we need is a SCGS web site, before this great school is just a footnote in the history of Surbiton. These means someone with the necessary skills and time to get it going. I’m sure Kevin Davis would allow us to transfer the comments to a dedicated web site, these and future contributions, along with class and teacher lists ( Surrey Education Authority, or whatever it is called now must surely have piles of info gathering dust somewhere). photographs, etc;etc. could provide a fitting tribute to our days on St. Marks Hill. There must be amongst us a web designer, computer expert who could start it up. Any suggestions?
Also get your friends who were there, to start contributing. I e-mailed Keith Piggott about the site-and we got an immediate contribution.
And to Richard Day, can’t remember you, sorry-but thanks for remembering me. You must have been in the class behind me since keith invited to you “the party” . It’s normally sunny here in the winter, but always colder than SC. But I will take our winters over your summers any time!
January 9, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I also remember like Richard Day going for a drink in the Railway tavern after a G&S production-but dressed as a policeman. In those great days as long as you had money they would serve you, of course none of us had cars then. Think I was a lager and lime boy in those days. It took me living in Newcas’le before I began to enjoy more worthwile brews, especially Newcastle Brown Ale, or “journey into space” as the geordies called it. That was in March 59, but Richard wasn’t in the program ( I told you my mum kept everything) so Doig must have put that production on again-when was yours Richard?
David Littleproud is spot on in suggesting that all these memories be kept alive. What we need is a SCGS web site, before this great school is just a footnote in the history of Surbiton. These means someone with the necessary skills and time to get it going. I’m sure Kevin Davis would allow us to transfer the comments to a dedicated web site, these and future contributions, along with class and teacher lists ( Surrey Education Authority, or whatever it is called now must surely have piles of info gathering dust somewhere). photographs, etc;etc. could provide a fitting tribute to our days on St. Marks Hill. There must be amongst us a web designer, computer expert who could start it up. Any suggestions?
Also get your friends who were there, to start contributing. I e-mailed Keith Piggott about the site-and we got an immediate contribution.
And to Richard Day, can’t remember you, sorry-but thanks for remembering me. You must have been in the class behind me since keith invited to you “the party” . It’s normally sunny here in the winter, but always colder than SC. But I will take our winters over your summers any time!
January 9, 2009 at 5:45 pm
I also remember like Richard Day going for a drink in the Railway tavern after a Pirates of Penzance G&S production-but dressed as a policeman. In those great days as long as you had money they would serve you, of course none of us had cars then. Think I was a lager and lime boy in those days. It took me living in Newcas’le before I began to enjoy more worthwile brews, especially Newcastle Brown Ale, or “journey into space” as the geordies called it. That was in March 59, but Richard wasn’t in the program ( I told you my mum kept everything) so Doig must have put that production on again-when was yours Richard?
David Littleproud is spot on in suggesting that all these memories be kept alive. What we need is a SCGS web site, before this great school is just a footnote in the history of Surbiton. These means someone with the necessary skills and time to get it going. I’m sure Kevin Davis would allow us to transfer the comments to a dedicated web site, these and future contributions, along with class and teacher lists ( Surrey Education Authority, or whatever it is called now must surely have piles of info gathering dust somewhere). photographs, etc;etc. could provide a fitting tribute to our days on St. Marks Hill. There must be amongst us a web designer, computer expert who could start it up. Any suggestions?
Also get your friends who were there, to start contributing. I e-mailed Keith Piggott about the site-and we got an immediate contribution.
And to Richard Day, can’t remember you, sorry-but thanks for remembering me. You must have been in the class behind me since keith invited to you “the party” . It’s normally sunny here in the winter, but always colder than SC. But I will take our winters over your summers any time!
January 9, 2009 at 7:25 pm
sorry for the triple post. never got confirmation that the first effort had gone through. So I hit the submit button again. You can see I,m not the man for a web site!
January 12, 2009 at 4:36 pm
Look on the bright side Colin-you could have ordered 111 packets of rice krispies from Tesco’s
January 13, 2009 at 11:54 am
1942-1946 Wartime memories – air-raid shelters- picking-up shell fragments en-route to school- the Dig for Victory garden organised by geography teacher, Neil Holdaway – buzz-bombs and the evacuation to Atherton, Lancashire.
I recommend the book ‘The First 21 Years of Surbiton County Grammar School’ by A. J. F. (Bert) Forward.
My photocopy from Kingston Museum and Heritage Service.
email: local.history@rbk.kingston.gov.uk
January 13, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Dave, Incredible memory you have after all this time. I believe we were both in the same class for about a term I was vying with Anthony Arbour for the dubious position of being bottom of the class. Do I remember correctly that you took a couple of weeks off school and came back as a prodigy in modern languages? I remember there was a compulsory boxing competition when I first got to the school. I was paired to fight Cox who was some sort of school boy champion. I remember getting into the ring amid all the shouting. Before he had even a chance to lay the first punch, one of the masters threw the towel into the ring and stopped the fight. I suppose I’ll never know whether I could have won!!
January 14, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Dear Robin
I remember you very well.
I thought we were in the same class for longer than a term.
However I think the original Sep 1956 groups were split halfway through th spring term. I don’t know about your academic prowess but I do remember ‘arry Arbour used to get p****ed of with me if I beat him in English or History–remember we joined SCGS in 1956 at the time of the Suez Crisis–we used to call ‘arry Nasser!! I haven’t seen him since 1968.
You mention my memory-I’m still pals with a great big ginger chap called Alan Kemp and he can’t remember a thing!! However my memory has never paid the bills!!
I was no language expert I had a struggle to get “o” level French- Iwas one of those too thick to do Latin- well fancy having 36 different ways of spelling “big”–iwas sent off to do technical drawing-a variation of which I did all my working life.
The only language expert I can remember was a guy in our year called Peter Ward, a big tall lad with slicked back dark hair-one weekend in the first year Peter finished the whole Latin text and from thereon seemed to do nothing but languages at a much higher level than the rest of us -I don’t know what happened to him. There was a guy in the year above us , a Dutch kid called Hans Mock who was red hot at languages but he stayed with his year group.Yeah I remember John “boxing” Cox.
Sometime I will try and make a list of those in our year-there were 90 of us!!
January 15, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Gaffer iam crushed that you do not remember me.I was 2 yrs behind you,we went on a school trip together ,to Paris.We also went to S. of France on a rugby tour in1959.David,Hans Mock was Swiss,he was in th e same group as me doing botany and zoology A levels.He was one of those smart fellows who accelerated.
January 15, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Boxers:Ken Player,Oscar Wright,Gordon Jackson,Alan Ridley,John Cox.
January 17, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Dear Dave , You are right I’m sure we were in the “b” stream probably throughout my school career. I also had to give up Latin after the first term. My father complained to Doig as I wanted to be a doctor.However Doig said that even though my Latin marks were quite high, my French was so bad that I had to drop Latin and concentrate on French. I also did technical drawing. I remember that my smudged efforts always incurred the wrath of the master, (Harvey?) On one occasion we had to plane a piece of wood to make it square, however mine ended up as a wedge shape so he hit me on the head with the wood. This was a fairly common teaching method in those days. It certainly didn’t do me any harm as the modern educationlists contend. There was one brilliant student in that class, Wood ? I do remember Alan Kemp with his ginger hair, thanks for putting the name to the genius in languages, Peter Ward. Harry Arbour decided to read and learn the Encyclopedia Britannica. He started with Aardvark and just kept going, sometimes to the annoyance of the masters when he used words with which they were not familar. His writing was almost unreadable despite the elevated content.
January 28, 2009 at 12:12 pm
At SCGS 53-60, Egmont.
My thanks to Keith Piggot for guiding me to this.
One of the few names I recognise is Colin Munday who seems to be a prolific blogger if you’ll pardon the phrase! I think we started together in 2e. Colin I last saw at the end of our hitch trip round Europe with Keith & Ian Burhop.
Blog encouraged me to search out my copy of the school mag from 1960. Photos include Taf Davies & Rugby XV, Doig & Bert Forward with prefects (not me), The Gondoliers (R.Rimmer as the duchess, D.Brown as Casilda), Gold Award winners (not me), & a last look at Braemar before demolition. By the way I think there is a Braemar Club in existence.
January 28, 2009 at 8:31 pm
d.cooper@ckv-consulting.com
The school was a disgrace. Some great teachers, and some sadists like the wretched Hillier. Anybody know what happened to him? It can’t be nasty enough, as far as I am concerned.
January 31, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Some people have no sense of humour.Found an old photo,taken in Paris on arugby trip inI think 1960,Barry Powell,Mike Courtney,Chris Brand,Jim Lofting,Rich Goddard,Ginger Gill,Phil Lucas,Quentin Finch.Lots of fun.
February 1, 2009 at 10:22 pm
re Richards last -Although I’m from the class of ‘56 I remember some of the names. Was Jim Lofting a tall fair haired guy?
February 12, 2009 at 7:55 pm
O.K.,now where was I.(have been busy saving lives and stamping out disease.)Dave- Yes Jim Lofting was tall and fair haired.He subsequently captained Old Surbs 1 st XV.Also famous for bringing chocolate sandwiches for lunch.
February 19, 2009 at 11:24 am
I am the daughter of Frank (Francis) Bowry who attended SCGS from 45-51/2, then went to Kingston Art Sch taking a degree in Architecture. He used to bike up from Worcester Park and I am trying to piece together bits of his life from that era, as he sadly died 2 yrs ago. I wonder if anyone has any recall of him? He was always drawing and a very gpod artist till the day he died!
Lovely to read all the blogs. I have a school panoram. photo of him at SCGS, so is there anywhere I can scan and post it?
March 1, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Oh no! Not Roger (Zip) Rimmer!!! Roughly 1955ish to about 1962?
Before saying anything whatsoever, I wish to tender to everyone who had the misfortune of being in the same class as I, my profound, sincere and unreserved apologies for my behaviour during my entire school career. No excuses, I was just a horrible disruptive little urchin who had missed a turning following my mum dying the year I went to Surbiton, so whereas I do not pretend or try to advance the notion that her passing was the cause, it certainly didn’t help in settling me into any learning curve, with or without attitude. I remember many fellow pupils and am really pleased to have discovered this site. Whilst a memory defect which resulted in having virtually no recall (and this is no phoney wheeze to explain away alcoholic amnesia) although being careless enough to mislay a half-gallon or two somewhere down my gullet in the pub over the road during the Pirates (I tried to sing Ruth, the piratical maid of all work) a touch of AA might have been contributory to what was described in the pertinent school magazine as ‘Why, even Ruth found a favourite verse in her song which she insisted on singing over and over every night’ when really, it was little or no recall. Never mind.
I remember Dave Littleproud of course and in addition, Colin Brightwell, David Cooper (trumpet) David Morgan (soprano) Nils Polden (sopranoish contralto) Ken Webb (Lovelace, ginger hair) Woody who lived at Cobham, John (Dowos) Woods, Wimbledon, John Horrocks, Mick ‘Ammond, Tony Harryman, Robin Hendy and Keef Swan both of whom I met in the city at various times when I was doing law, Richard Mills who was same year/different form, and I seem to recall as being an absolute flyer and extremely intelligent, didn’t he become a barrister? – David Gillman, Eddie Hughes who joined the school later than most and on account of whose massive build and strength, the ceiling plaster in the assembly hall was in a state of constant modification due to his propensity for hurling full size medicine balls vertically at it either after or immediately before gym – he had a tobacconists in Esher? – John Keutaneous and John Cox both pretty ace boxers in the team at the time of Leonard Dable who won the Langham Statuette for being the most scientific young boxer and who can ever forget the ever smiling, violin playing, punch any adversaries lights out within four ropes – Oscar Wright! I could go on and on since whereas I have had very little or no recall, my memory of distant past was recently described as ‘nothing short of phenominal’ and were I able to make a contribution to any Surbitonians website, it would be my pleasure so to do. I remember masses of relative information and if jogged, would no doubt recall more and more.
Briefly, I left Surbiton in 1962, was structurally re-arranged in a RTA outside Chessington Zoo almost immediately, did six and a half years in law, got so bored that I left, went to work for Associated Newspapers, got even more bored and split the scene for Canada having bumped into Tony ‘Arold Arbor who had already been and who explained that I would be even more bored with California and armed with this utterly vital information from our budding politician, I set sail from Princes Port, Glasgow for Canada on the 28th May 1968. I followed the usual pattern of mining, building skyscrapers, logging camps, playing in groups, oil rigs and a whole host of other kicks to earn the pennies to enable me to move about this jumpin’ green sphere before trying and succeeding in settling down but this didn’t work either.
Consequently, I am still tearing the arse out of it and sincerely trust that there are some more of you old Surbitonians who are of similar vintage and without one leg in the box as well?
I don’t want to say too much over the www. but would be more than willing to meet up with any old fellow pupils although I well realise that this might not be reciprocal. C’mon guys, let your hair down and jump out of your Conservative pants and say ‘hello’. I just know there will be rakes of blokes out there who will have some outrageous tales to relate?
March 1, 2009 at 8:59 pm
It’s Zip again! I didn’t click the appropriate box at the bottom so – Yes, notify me of any follow-up comments via email. If they get too ‘heavy’ though, I’ll do a runner!
March 2, 2009 at 12:06 am
Another delusion shattered ! I always thought I enjoyed Zip’s classroom entertainments – still if he feels the need to apologise who am I to argue with an old gentleman? Great to hear from you Roger – you seem to have had a lively interesting time (cue for ” waiter !! three more brandy and sodas” anyone remember that?)
‘Why, even Ruth found a favourite verse in her song which she insisted on singing over and over every night’-I have the very quote in front of me-even more damning I have a picture of someone dressed as an Italian Duchess!!
I obviously moved in the wrong circles- I do not think I have met any random Old Surbs since I left
perhaps they hide when they see me coming!!!??
I remember all the names you mention- I’ve been trying to compile a list of the class of ‘56. you have helped with 4 names leaving 6 to go- assuming we started with 90. For what its worth I have “The Surbitonian”–1957, ,1959, 1960,1961,1962, ,1964.
Why do I do this at ungodly hours-far too late it’s tomorrow!!
Keepin touch Roger -great to hear from you!!
March 2, 2009 at 8:59 am
Old Gentleman? OK, like most in our year, I join the ranks of OAPs this time which is just amazing. To quote Eubie Blake – ‘If I thought I was going to live this long, I’d have taken better care of myself.’ But ‘Gentleman’ – that’s maybe laying in on a bit thick like Gus did. I have had and am continuing to enjoy a lively and interesting time as I hinted above. I saw a carved wooden plaque on the wall of a cricket pavillion in a village up the valley from where I live which read ‘And when the One Great Scorer comes to write against your name, He writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game’ and have drawn much inspiration from this expression.
Referring as I did to David Morgan and Niels Polden as being in the soprano/contralto range was incorrect. I should have described them as alto/soprano which would have been nearer the mark. Whatever, both had superb voices.
Masters that impressed were Alan Bolt (Nutty) mentioned above and a saintly man by the name of Mr.Walmsley (Wormo)who would appear immaculately dressed, usually in his gown with the upright stature of a guardsman and all the quiet demeanour of the gentleman I feel sure he was. Disciplining unruly, spirited boys must be a thankless task and we were a pretty unruly bunch, but I have found throughout my life in the outside world, that the men who have impressed me most, have been those who have employed their brains to guide their fellow men and boys, rather than those with sticks.
Head boy was Keith Masters, notorious for his exocet type crash tackle on the rugby field and a contemporary of Brian Cresswell, Jim Harding, Michael Pay and ‘Modern Music’ – a bloke called Morley? – but they were seniors at the time I was engaging in co-ordination of rolling dustbin lids across the playground at break and contact was only made through the operettas. They were my only flirtation with cross-dressing and I never quite understood Doig’s preoccupation with getting young boys to dress up as females and go on display. I can’t help but feel that King’s College exploits the beauty of the unbroken male voice in a rather more appropriate manner each Christmas but maybe that’s a stuffy attitude?
March 4, 2009 at 8:07 am
Dave, you are looking for 6 names. I don’t think I’ve seen Richard Graham referred to above. He was one of those guys who was annoyingly good at everything. Sporting wise he was an excellent bowler in the ‘Brian Statham’ mould. He went on to be a pilot with British Airways and as far as I am aware, now lives in Cyprus.
March 5, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Colin -thank you -still need 6 names since I had Roy Reynolds down twice ! Stupidity -not a Freudian slip!! Was there a Ray Swann as well as a Keith Swann?? Re “Zip” Rimmers thoughts on A.J . Doig’s penchant for boys dressing up as girls I think the 50s were a more innocent, gentler, kinder age – I know my parents worried less about me than I worry about my kids now. I heartily concur with the comments about Mr Walmsley -he taught me maths in LVB in that room opposite the main door – it later became the secretary’s office. I don’t ever remember Mr Walmsley ever raising his voice-and we had Hughes ,Harriman and Hammond in that class and me – I still have the geometry set I bought from Eddy Hughes – Joe Turner was the form teacher- head boy was a guy called Hind.
March 6, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Dave, yes. Ray was Keith’s cousin if my memory serves me correctly.
March 15, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Thank you Colin!
Can any one in the class of 56 remember ? Was there a kiddie called David Brohn or something similar – a small chap with glasses?
March 15, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Dear Dave, Yes I remember him. I think he played a musical instrument. Not certain about the name, David Brown? When I lived in Avondale Avenue, Worcester Park (circa 1959), David had three maiden aunts who lived next door to me. They were very reclusive and I don’t think I ever saw them. Good to hear that Roger wrote in. My family lived in Oxshott for many years. The local history books had much to say about the illustrious Rimmer family.
March 16, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Dave, Jim Lofting, I believe was in the year above us and was indeed tall and fair haired. I spoke with him in 1993 when he was visiting a neighbour at Oxshott. Jim was a contemporary, I believe, of Buster Faulkes, Tony Maybey? Nigel Husband and his younger brother Roger, although these latter two were of course in different years. I literally bumped into Roger H. on either West Georgia, Howe or Burrard Street in Vancouver in 1967ish.
Robin, thank you for your comment about the family which is most kind. I am not sure about the surname ‘Brown’ either. My recollection is that Casilda was sung by David Morgan to whom I referred earlier but this may be erroneous. I think that the last time you and I met was in the city in 1967 and the last time I spoke with Anthony Arbour in 1968. I remember Eddie Pearce as well. Very quiet pleasant lad. What about Hughie Laing? He had an elder brother in the school and he used to go hop picking near Ticehurst in Kent during the summer holidays. He was mates with a lad called Ford who was a year above us and notorious for having successfully earthed a megavolt electricity cable to see what would happen which resulted in the lad’s partial deafness? Others will know about this – perhaps Hughie himself may make a contribution. The point made earlier about the catchment area for pupils is in my view, a most pertinent one, since other than via the classroom, few knew each other prior to induction. I recall feeling pretty intimidated by the apparent impersonality of such a large gathering of pupils after primary school, which was only reinforced by this means. Anybody remember David Burton (Lovelace, like us Dave)? He was in Ruddigore along with Norman Lucking (Coutts) and Nellie Neldrett referred to above whom I heard playing bass with Malcolm Penn on drums with various personnel from a group called The Sidewinders that backed Little Stevie Wonder during his visit to these shores.
I tend to forget negatives that occur in life and move on. Thus, all my memories of the old school are mainly happy ones, although clearly it was not always too pleasant there. Consequently, I find it rather a shame to hear the comment from David Cooper (Villiers, I reckon) above, even though some aspects of school life probably were a touch basic. Life is what you make it. I do hope that those still taking oxygen who have not so far contributed make the effort for we all must have more time behind than in front.
I reckon that the hey-day of the school must have been a year or two before ours since the rugby players mentioned above that gave the school such a formidable reputation on the field were older pupils who had either just left or were sixth form when we joined? I find it great to read this blog which hopefully is only just in bottom gear. Come on lads, let us all hear from you.
March 18, 2009 at 5:41 pm
On a philosophical note,what was so wrong the Grammar School System,that they have all but disappeared? I have been blessed with the very best of educational opportunities at 4 major Universities,but the foundation was the 8 years I spent at SCGS ,for which I am profoundy grateful. Talking of opportunities,David Morgan,he of the fabulous voice.went to Cambridge on a choral scholarship,studied medicine,and became a G.P.in Dorset,of course he had amajor talent ,but singing in the G&s operas honed that voice.
March 19, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Thank you guys I now have a listof 87 names for the class of ‘56. I’m only assuming there were 90. I don’t think I’ve added people from other years but it was all a long time ago.
David morgan played /sang Rose Maybud the 1956 production of Ruddigore and in the 1960 “Surbitonian” there is a photo of David in the role of Casilda and Roger Rimmer as the Duchess. A David Burton sang in Ruddigore. I remember Hughie Laing turning Holy Joe green with a graphic description of Hughie falling onto spiked fence and having stitches in both sides of his arm -Hughie was always falling out of things and breaking bits of himself.
In answer to Richard’s comments about the demise of grammar schools I think it is the politics of envy–if I can’t be an artist in Malibu like Dave Ashwell why should anyone else ? -my own belief is that we should all be able to be artists in Malibu -but Dave knows i can’t paint.
Living out in the backwoods we have been lucky we still have grammar schools-we moved here before we had kids. Both my son and daughter had a choice of 4 grammar schools within arange of 15 miles-the standard varies -the most popular , most successful,school is always 8 times oversubscribed–people are voting with their feet. I don’t know the perfect school system but it ain’t wot we got now-one size doesn’t fit all. If Ididn’t enjoy my time at Surbiton it was probably my own fault -education is wasted on the young !! there were many opportunities that I didn’t grasp and also lots of the academic stuff.
March 25, 2009 at 2:15 pm
On the philosophy of education. Like Dave I didn’t realise the opportunities which were being offered. I wasn’t aware that the school had an operatic society until I watched the brilliant performance. I found at the beginning that some pupils had already studied French at their prep schools. Therefore the initial lessons went so fast while I was trying to ascertain the logic of a female table, the others had moved way ahead. My children were educated in the private sector. When I put my son down at birth for Eton, my wife and I were interviewed by his future house master (to be appointed in 13 years’ time). I quote “when a boy comes to Eton we make it a priority to find out where his talents lie, it might be brick laying”) To illustrate the point the only subject my son got an A in at Eton was jewellery- making. Long-term planning and giving children lots of different opportunities in small numerical classes. If the state sector followed these simple rules I could have saved myself a fortune in school fees and in my opinion, children would be more fulfilled and better educated. However after school, what one does with one’s life is down to oneself. Grammar schools have served generations of children very well. The argument that they only selected the top 10% is easily remedied . Grammar Schools are a fanastic brand name, the demand is 8 times (D.L) the supply. If Tesco were running the education system instead of the inept politicians, Tesco would open more Grammar schools, they would also use the Millfield model giving places to sporting children. This supposes that all the school sports fields are not closed down first. The model is endless, with schools for musicans etc. These measures are about catering for children, not some mythical all inclusive politically-correct education system which has now failed so many children. I am currently reading the “History of the Hoare Banking Dynasty”and came across the following : “Henry Hoare had completed his Cambridge Education by the age of nineteen, graduating with a double first from St John’s ” This was in 1822, the opportunies are endless. It is a pity dogma impedes our childrens’ progress.
March 25, 2009 at 6:27 pm
Hi everyone … stumbled across this quite by accident. What a blast!!! I was there 1955-1962, Egmont House. Was in the express (-X) stream for O levels so were only 11 or so in our class. Dave … that teacher list of yours brought back memories, so did some of the other names. Used to live next door to the Swanns in Tolworth; was the drummer in the Electrons with Bas Hewston and Nick Graham and later merged with Gremlins with Len Neldrett on Guitar. Still keep in touch with Len, currently in Madrid. Chris Preston was also in my class plus Dick Gamage (yerar below?). So many memories … it was an incredible experience !!!
March 25, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Thank you Malcolm. Are you the tall fair haired one with glasses or is the alzheimers kicking in-me not anyone else! Thanks for the mention of Barry Hewson- I now have 2 names to find to complete a list of 90 for the class of ‘56- I’m still assuming there were 90. Please send my regards to Len Neldrett-Madrid sounds good. I remember Robin telling me about “Bulls and Bears” -sinc he has been such a succesful matador I regret not paying attention at the time. I very much like Robin’s comment about letting Tesco’s run the schools. However grammar schools cream off the best leaving the independent schools and the comprehensives to take what they are given-our local independent and comprehensive schools have similar results. In any soap operaa or drama school is always portrayed as a place for chaos and mayhem not a place for learning. During inclement our locla radio station present a school closure as something good -not something to be regretted. Education needs the same pr that any other product on which we spend loadsa money gets-back to Tesco’s -perhaps we should have Saatchi and Saatchi promoting the virtues of education- media directed at children should always show education as something to be enjoyed not something for nerds and swots -the Bash Street Kids should not be heroes. I’ll put my soap box away!
March 25, 2009 at 10:46 pm
ps too much philosophy -let’s stick to memories -or not? or as well?
March 26, 2009 at 10:34 am
Hi all, change of theme. I’d be interested to know where life has taken everyone. I left Surbiton with just 6 ‘o’ levels after struggling for a year with ‘A’ levels. Bert Forward (what a nice man) advised that I would be better to go into business and undertake specific training in insurance or banking. Thankfully avoided the latter and entered articles to train as a Chartered Accountant in the City. Boy was it hard! Qualified in the end but only after an almighty struggle! Rose to the dizzy heights of Finance Director in a couple of Vehicle Leasing and Management subsidiaries of major banks. Am now mostly retired but still do work for an Executive Search firm that once headhunted me! Married Lesley in 1970 and moved to Cranleigh in Surrey. Subsequently moved via Jacobs Well and Mayford to Horsell where we now reside for approx 7 months of the year with the other 5 months being spent in Cyprus. Have two children Natalie (36) and Matthew (34).
Only in touch with one Old Surb, Tony Hall who was my best man at our wedding. He married Pam in 1968 and ran a property management company up to about 3 years ago in West Byfleet. Now manager of Guildford Hockey Club 1st eleven, he splits his time between Woking and France where he and Pam have a cottage. His son Danny played for the GB Hockey team in three Olympics and although retired from International hockey, now plays for East Grinstead in the Premier League.
Thinking about sport, Dave, another name for you, Stephen Pedder. Not sure when he was at Surbiton but was certainly my age as he played goalkeeper in a football team that I started when I was at Surbiton (boy did I get in trouble for that). Think he must have come to the school later than the rest of us. He was a nutter as most goalkeepers are. The last I heard of Stephen was that he was working as a groundsman. I also heard that at a time when he was unemployed he was arrested for being drunk and disorderly and when the magistrate wanted to know why he wasn’t working Stephen replied that he was a shepherd and was finding it difficult getting a job … in Kingston! Sorry, I’m going on a bit but another name has sprung to mind, John Horrocks. Talk about association of ideas! I tried to fix John up with a blind date with Pam, yes the very same young lady mentioned above. He couldn’t make it so when I bumped into Tony Hall in Bank underground station on the way to work (he was a trainee Chartered Surveyor at that time) he agreed to go on the date. The rest, as they say, is history! I have a feeling that John also wasn’t at Surbiton very long but can’t be sure.
Look forward to hearing other potted histories that I’m sure will be an awful lot more interesting than mine!
March 28, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Must have been about 1956 to 1960.
Yes, I was at school there but actually got my education later in Canada.
If anyone remembers me (doubtful as to quote one teacher, Wilf? – ‘he seems to reject every social and academic aspect of the school’), if you do it’s probably the painful altercation I had with dear Dr.Turner in the playground, from which I learned
‘It’s not British’ and ‘An Englishman never tells a lie’. For some reason I had handed him a water pistol and told him it didn’t shoot backwards…
Have rarely run into old Surbitonians, an exception being Roger Rimmer, you omit to mention Roger that in 1970 your E Type Jag was confiscated by an over zealous official and we bought it back for a mitigated fine of $50. (I’ll send you the photos).
Am in third career (blame SCGS, obviously cant hold down a job)… 25 years as an architect, presently running a video production company, specialising in school events… strange….
March 28, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Would be interested to hear of anyone else living in the Vancouver area.
March 28, 2009 at 11:18 pm
It just occurred to me. Vancouver is one of the beautiful areas in the world. Between here and the capital, Victoria, on Vancouver Island, and also in Howe Sound are the Gulf Islands. I once found anchorage for the night at one of the nicest and least developed. Problem was its name – Keats Island…
March 29, 2009 at 12:10 am
Come on Roger! He wasn’t that bad – I think he had a kind heart -in my case I think they had some pretty unresponsive clay to mould. My wife worked in Vancouver in the ’70s – she said it was a beautiful place.
March 29, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Good job us ‘Rogers’ have a mischievous sense of humour. I sort of wondered if that would be dredged up. As I recall, I was endeavouring to negotiate with the arresting officer and you were dancing around with your camera requesting the officer to ‘move in a little closer’ and ‘can I have one with the two of you………etc.’ which wasn’t the essence of tact at a time when I had temporarily lost my motor. Any copies of photographs would be most welcome but without revealing my email address to everybody on the internet, I do not know any other means by which I can tell you where I am these days Roger. I certainly don’t mind any of us chaps (ie, Old Surbs) knowing one bit, but the whole world – no thanks – the spam would be worse than Monty’s, not to mention a foot in the door on potential identity theft. Maybe Dave Littleproud can help? Delighted to hear of all the other names mentioned, particularly Steven Pedder, Bas Hewison and John Horrocks.
With regard to ‘other potted histories’ referred to by Colin (you seem to have had a most interesting life and continue to do so – well done Colin), it is quite an idea. Trouble is, the most extreme, and thus likely the most interesting will likely have been lived by many who don’t spend much time on or have access to – the internet, for whatever reasons? I missed out on the marriage scene by design as a result of reading Bacon’s Essays on the way over to Canada and found his expression of ‘hostages to fortune’ to be rather intimidating at a time when I was just starting to accumulate. Also, I believe that even if all other intoxicants are made to keep quarter in the life of man (no more jokes Rog please) the one which I have found the hardest to resist is freedom to which I have adhered throughout. But there again, the single life doesn’t suit most. I have said enough, but sincerely hope that other fellows pick up on this blog as it is a bit of a blast – I reckon. However, now Roger H. has fired up, I could be in all sorts of trouble and propose to keep a low profile – lols.
March 31, 2009 at 8:36 am
Hi to you all…
Just when I was beinning to think I was a bit weird, searching web sites for nostalgia, I found myself here, and have been reading the blogs, totally entralled.
Unlikely anyone out there actually remembers me (1953 – 1961, Egmont), because, apart from a couple of brief appearances in G&S productions, and getting famously beaten up in a House Boxing tornament by Keith Beeks, I spent most of my time keeping a low profile.
I can add a few obsure names to the list of teachers, not yet mentioned:
Monsieur Michaud – French Teaching Assistant
Major Lefevre, a Captain Mannering lookalike
Rupert Rose – senior physics
Masters – a quiet dignified teacher of carpentry
“Scrog” Haywood
“Barry” Bucknell – assistan art teacher
Contemporary pupils, with apologies to those I have forgotten):
The Courtney twins
Hedley Stovold
Colin Bridges
Richard Venables
Robin Millet
Viv Gunton ( a now retired former Concorde pilot)
Niels Polden
Michael Hind
Graham Hatherley
Brian Boyce
Humphrey Weedon
Roy Wernham
John Edwards
Bob Langstaff
Tregurtha, Trigg, Coates-Smith, Honeysett, Stunnell,
Left SGS in 1961 with the requisite A levels but was lured into industry rather than further academia. Spent to first 20 years in various major food companies in marketing, then, in 1983 recklessly moved to Saudi Arabia, where I spent the next 25 years doing basically the same but getting paid more.
Unofficially retired 2 years ago, and moved to Dubai, opening up my own modest trading company, and am able to spend more time with my daughter and the 3 grandchildren.
Would love to hear from anyone out there who remembers me.
March 31, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Got you Mr Pocock! Neatly sandwiched between Bob Liebermann and’on a chair, Ron Ladd!!-I don’t think Major Lefrevre would be impressed as being likened to a Captain Mainwaring lookalike. My perception of him is as a pukka officer type -I have to admit my experience of the officer class was rather limited when I was eleven – Major Lefevre left for pastures new in Rhodesia in 1957.
Roger R – in order to retain your anonymity you could get Roger H to post the damning evidence to a “poste restante” in a distant town. or go through Friends Reunited. There are ways of not getting spam -my home grown computer guru might know.
March 31, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Thank you Dave – good suggestion. Hopefully Roger H. will be monitoring the blog from time to time and will pick up on it.
March 31, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Hi! Roger R! What are you doing on the internet in the middle of the afternoon? have a practice run -send something to me –
c/0 Newent Post Office
29 Church St
Newent,
GL18 1AA.
Any way Roger H sent 3 emails pretty quickly.
March 31, 2009 at 4:42 pm
That’s excellent Dave. Hopefully Roger H. will see it and respond. I’ll send you mine tomorrow as the post will have gone already. Thanks for this. We go back a long way – copper pipe pyrotechnics, a scooter accident and chasing the same birds – you know – all the usual stuff.
March 31, 2009 at 5:55 pm
Dave are you implying that Ron Ladd was short? Iremember hat he had a large collection of Ruby Austens in various states of disrepair in his mothers back garden in Epsom,he was constantly working on the.I remember that he Chris Brand and I drove to Notting Hill to buy yet another one,the seller was a large West Idian gentleman ,who introduced us to the pleasures of weed. I was in the class of 1954, and I do remember You Peter P.You have jogged my memory re some of your classmates.Hedley Stovold was part of the Group that caught the 65 bus at Surbiton Station,he lived some way past the Zoo.Bob Langstaff was also part of that group,he ended up at Sandhurst.Humph Weedon I last saw in Toronto in 1975 at Quentin Finch’s house.My potted history- like alot of others found my way to Canada wher e afer a creer in research wnt to Medical School.Got tired of the cold weather and trained in Obstetrics and gynaecology in Charleston S.C where I have resided for 30 yrs.Keep up with Dave Ashwell,he and I are vying for the record of most marriages for Old surbitonians.However now happily married (as is Dave) for anumber years,with one son Chris,36,and 3 step children.
March 31, 2009 at 8:11 pm
Dear Richard, Yep!! I remember Ron as one of the few prefects that up to age 13/14 I didn’t have to look up to. You could also ask Peter Pocock who was standing on his right in the prefect’s photo. Ron was also a head shorter than Roy( ?) Gill. I rest my case my lord! Any way I remember Ron as a very nice fella and I hope he has enjoyed the past 40+ years as much as most of us seem to have done. Lot’s of you seem to have gone via Canada to success. My sister in law has enjoyed Nova Scotia for over 20 years and my wife enjoyed working in Vancouver. I remember all the names you mention although you and they were older than me. I did ” o” level art with Hedley Stovold’s little brother.
April 1, 2009 at 3:43 am
Does anyone have the official school photos of 1957/8/9 or 1960? Also the Rome Olympics trip (1960). I have some slides taken on a school trip to Paris, probably 1959, Martin (Mac) Macara “holding up” the Eiffel Tower and a small group at Versailles, Osborne House on the Isle of White, and another unidentified trip. If anyone is interested my son assures me there are non revealing options for sending by internet.
April 1, 2009 at 5:50 am
Thanks Guys for your replies.
Having lost all school photos over the years sorry that I can’t help in identifying anyone that way.
For the record, poor old Stovold actually lived way beyond Leatherhead and had arguably the longest commute of any SCGS pupil in history.
Ron Ladd had I believe a rather serious wasting disease, and during the time I knew him, and for a few years after leaving school, he was literally getting shorter year by year.
Apropos nothing at all, didn’t Jock Lonsdale have a son at the school?
Who was the ’science’ teacher with blond curly hair who rode to school on a drop handlebar racing bike?
Surprised, in references to Ken Bidmead, no-one recalls his terrifying command of the stationery cupboard in Braemar, where he would literally examine each page of an exercise book before agreeing to issue a new one.
Loved the detail about Eddie Watkins. My main memory of him was his P.E. classes in the Hall. He got us lined up by house, then marching and countermarching up and down for 35 minutes. Regularly, at some point he would ask for a volunteer with a bike, to go out and buy him some cigarettes.
Anyone remember that pointless exercise around Form 5, when you had to spend the day outside Doig’s office on “Bell Duty” , ringing the bell to end each period, running errands for the Secretary and avoiding Doig’s stare.
Sorry – rambling.
Cheers
April 1, 2009 at 3:41 pm
Peter-I think the science master that you are thinking about was Mr.Stubbings,but he taught maths.He also started us playing squash,at which Hans Mockand David Morgan were stars.He also tried starting a rowing club,but left the school before it could take off.I remember afew pleasant sunday mornings rowing on the Thames,with boats borrowed from Kingston Rowing Club (then based at the old Turks boat house.Other rowers were Dave Ashwell,Ginger Gill,Lincoln Waller.I am pretty sure that Jock Lonsdale had 2 daughters but no sons.However Nick Napper dated one of the daughters.They lived i Thames Ditton,just down the road from Th e Swan.Segue to Keith Swann-did he meet his demise as aresult of amotor -cycle accident.Malcolm wre you a neighbour of Phil Lucas on Red Lon Rd?
April 2, 2009 at 1:08 am
I’ve just discovered this great website. I was at SCGS 1954-1961. Trumpet player in the school orchestras and in the G&S productions. Now in Taunton, as is Brian Cresswell who still runs the Somerset Rural Music School.I remember Jock Lonsdale introducing himself to Egmont as our new Housemaster “Boys, I want you to know that I weigh thurrrteen stone – and if you are sent to me with three Entries,I shall cane you. And every ooonce of that thurrrrten stone will be behind each strock of the cane”.Names I remember of guys in my year include David Morgan , Andy Pay , Philip Jago , Michael Shields , Michael Warburton….. I lived in Claygate. I went into Science teaching and did well. Then went into the Baptist ministry. Am now retired but tutor Science 1:1 , play in the Mid Somerset Orchestra and teach Trumpet. I also still preach once or twice a month. Do you remember Wilfred Sing (“Wilf”)?. I think he taught French but was also musical.
David Goodyear
April 2, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Roger R ! Safe delivery! My bright idea works – not a common occurence out in the wilds but I’ll let it run til the p.o. complains.
Moaning about spending the day outside the H.M.’s office? Lordy Peter! A day at Mrs Gambling’s beck and call-Wow!! They only let me do it once -I suspect it was because I disrupted every class by demanding that the dinner numbers tallied!
Yes I remember the trauma of prising a new book out of Ken Bidmead-I also remember him wandering the corridor of an express train returning from a schooltrip with a confiscated waterpistol in each hand! My cry of “Biddy the Kid” remained unpunished.
April 3, 2009 at 6:17 am
Hi Richard,
I remain totally convinced that there was a young Lonsdale around at the time – something of a ‘tearaway’. Help me out someone. In any event, even if it is proven that Jock had no sons, at least I remember at one point he had a bicycle equipped with a “magic motor” built into the wheel.
The Swan who died in a motor bike accident was, I think, Victor Swan.
David – I remember you well boarding the old 42 train at Claygate with your trumpet case. You must have known Humphrey Weedon – a fellow trumpeter.
April 3, 2009 at 9:21 am
Here is my “class of 56″ -Iapologise for any christian names my failing memory has missed-but I can put faces to names. Thank you Roger Rimmer for providing the missing piece -Nigel Froumin-last but not least!!
————————————————
FROM LATCHMERE–
TERRY DERHAM
GRAHAM HILL
ALAN JOHNSON
DAVID LITTLEPROUD
BARRY STODDARD
ROGER TAYLOR
BOB WHITELEY
EDWARD WOODEN
DAVID GILLMAN
————————–
MICK HAMMOND
PETER WARD
JOHN WARBURTON
ROBIN HENDY
ALAN KEMP
JOHN HUMPHREYS
ANDREW STEWART
JOHN COX
JOHN COCKS
JOHN KEUTENIUS
MICHAEL HORGAN
MICK REED ariel leader
ROGER RIMMER
EDMUND COLLINS
DAVID COURTNEY
—– MILLER—ginger hair
HARTLEY SOUTHERBY-SMITH
ROY REYNOOLDS
IAN MARTIN
KEN MILBORNE
MICHAEL PRIDE
HOWARD NELDRETT
STEFAN DREJA
ROB WAYNE
ROB ANDREWS
MICK BRILL
DAVE CROOK
CHRIS J WRIGHT
NORMAN PRATT
——? CARTER
MICK HUSS
RICHARD GRAHAM
DAVE COOPER
BARRY KEYWOOD
——? WHITE dark hair
JOHN KANIS
RICKY MILLS
NORMAN LUCKING
JOHN NETHERWAY
DAVE EASTLAND
GRAHAM HATHERLY
EDDIE PEARCE
KEITH SWANN
A—? DOWSETT
PHIL DARBY
STEVE SEARLE
ROGER ROWLEY
BERNIE HUGHES
ANTHONY FRANCIS ARBOUR
CHRIS CARLY-MACAULY
JOHN ENTICKNAPP
ANTHONY MOSS
ALAN GOUGH
PETER CLARKE
CHRIS STICKLAND
COLIN BRIGHT WELL
JOHN TURNER
BOB MASLEN
DAVE BURTON
STEWART MILLS
ANTHONY BRIGHT
PHILIP BROWNNG
COLIN THORPE
MARTIN WILTON
?????BREECH
???? FRY
TONY HALL
NIGEL FROUMIN
STEVE PEDDER
BARRY HEWSON
HUIGHIE LAING
DAVID BROWN—
RAY SWAN
COLIN BRIGHTWELL
KEVIN UPTON
KEN WEBB
JOHN WOODS
CEDRIC WOOD
JOHN HORROCKS
D THOMPSON??
DAVE FULCHER
April 3, 2009 at 9:30 am
Peter -I have a vague memory of Jock with some form of moped -must have been the French influence – I have some school magazines -when I get a working scanner!!!
Roger H-see my 31/03/09 -happy to do same for you! It worked and I had a most enjoyable telecon with Roger R.
Apologies for any anomalies/omissions on the list.
April 3, 2009 at 9:40 am
I reckon Rowley’s christian name is Richard and Neldrett, I feel sure is Leonard? No mention of Eddie Hughes or Tony Harriman whereas Colin Brightwell appears twice. Well done for all your efforts Dave. Speak to you soon.
April 3, 2009 at 9:53 am
Eddie and Tony weren’t in the original classof ‘56 Tony joined in 3B and Eddie in LVB-so ho! who have I missed? -Colin appearing twice does not entitle him to a bonus!!
April 3, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Hi Richard (and others) … sorry for the delay replying. I lived at 58 Bond Road, Tolworth, the Swanns lived next door at 56. I remember Victor’s bike accident well … it really broke his Mum. I guess he was only just 16 or so. I was in the Class of 1955, left in 1962. Don’t remember Phil Lucas from Red Lion Road. Moved from Tolworth to Sevenoaks Kent in 1972 for work reasons and stayed here ever since. Visit the old school site and the area recently … Kingston’s been destroyed, almost unrecognisable … The Red Lion Pub and Railway Tavern are no more, although The Swan In Thames Ditton still is. Most of the Tolworth area is unchanged except for 20mph speed limits and traffic bumps and other calming measures. My old gaff still looks much as it was when I grew up there. Dug out an LP made of the school choir and orchestra conducted by Alan Bolt made during 1960-62 at St Marks Hill Church and the school hall. Quite an epic. Will get it converted to mp3 when I get the chance. Got a book of cartoons drawn by by Bas Hewson somewhere “The lazy Monkey’s Handbook” about Mr Rose, the mad physics teacher. Not much else survived … except the experience!
April 7, 2009 at 9:38 pm
First:congratulations to D.Littleproud on gathering his list of class mates.I am up to about 20 for my group so far.Finally I have someone in my cohort who does not have anything better to do than cruise this web sitethank David Goodyear.David we were in the same class all the way to the 6 th form,but I seem to remember that you left after completing the lower 6 th.I remember well Mike Shields,When we dissected the dogfish in A level zoology,his dissections were a beauty to behold.As to Wilf Sing,he was our 3 rd form master,he also taught us french and latin.I absolutely agree re Kingston,a charming riverside town totally destroyed.
April 11, 2009 at 1:27 pm
I am going to be in Phoenix ,Arizona on April 17 th for a long weekend,if you are out there Steve Triggs give me a call-843-723-0373
April 16, 2009 at 8:06 pm
My experience lasted from 1963 to1966.Mr.Fry took us for rugger ,with Peewee Hunt,a fine practioner with the size 11 plimsoll during Latin.Scored two tries against Tiffins,my highlight.I can only remember Kelsall,who sadly died at Surbiton station,Corbett,Williams,I can’t seem to see anyone else from this era.Is any body out there.How about Simon Lever,hair was so long they would’nt let him in the 1965 panoramic photo,and the guy who managed to be photographed twice in the same snap.Merry memories.
April 17, 2009 at 5:14 pm
I attended from 1961 to 1965, at which time we moved to Canada. I remember Hunt, but I had Bidmead (handy with the ruler) for Latin. Fond memories of the long bus rides to rugger. Masters I recall having are Coutts (Keats) for English, Sid Capper for French, Cox for Physics, Busby for Arts, Jack Skene for Geography. Good memories of the Gilbert & Sullivan performances, not so much the cafeteria food!
April 22, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Egmont 1953 – 1958
YES!! Best Blog ever- linked here from a random Wikipedia surf. SCGC Site? Yes please. Quick first (maybe last!) look at me – another fast track GCE student who ended up in 5G!! 5 GCEs took me into RN for the next 27 years, then Shipbuilding followed by Nuclear, where at 66 I still am. Sod the Labour Party.
Some names – Cubin, to whom I aplogise for beating up during House boxing (I’m sure I thumped Pocock at some time as well!) Chris Brand who did the same to me. Not new, but the Courtney twins, Michael and I being the scourge of the Chemistry lab , Mike (Spinks?) who did a sub 65 minute TT (cycling always my main sport). Trev Birmingham who was reputed to run a market stall in Kingston; Meyhew, the only sod to eventually beat me (soundly) at both 880 and mile; Radford? who did the same at 100 and 220; Derek Rosam; Samuel, who had a bespoke Carpenter Fixi; Johnson, who I think I spotted on Friends Rsome years ago; Richardson, who got caned by Doig in Assembly, Geoff. Wood from my town (Walton) and a great pal. That’ll do for now, but here’s some memory triggers – Surbiton Lido, Hinchley Wood Girls Grammar, train commutes to Surbiton via Waterloo, Harrison Marks magazines in the shop opposite the Station, Nonsuch Park, Sack Jack campaign and a rally Sunbeam Talbot Alpine parked on Surbiton Hill.. Finally, wasn’t the main school building Alsbury House or some such?
Never been to Canada.
Fabulous days, isn’t youth wasted on the young!
April 22, 2009 at 6:39 pm
Amazing after all these years that most names have come up on this blog, but allow me to fill in some gaps :: On the 5th Year split I ended up in 5S2 & was buddies mainly with the Andrews brothers , Timothy & Robin who lived opposite me in Guildford Avenue just around the corner from the School — the reason why we are not so well remembered by the ‘Littleproud ‘ congregation is because we specialised in the ‘Art of Festering ‘ ! This consisted of strolling round to the school to sign on then slopping back to Rob Andrews for morning coffees & avid discussions on all things pubescent as well as listening to the latest Modern Jazz. Joining us in this almost daily torpid state were Graham ‘Chas ‘ Hill , Robin Wayne , Howard Sheppard , Barry ‘ Baz ‘ Hewson, Mick Warren , who also lived around the corner , & guest appearances from Tony ‘ Harry ‘ Arbour , Colin Stanley ,Terry Connolly ,Mick Chandler , Gerry Mercer , Stefan Dreja , Nigel Froumin , John Gosling , Mick Hoad & several of those mentioned by other in previous ‘ Blogs ‘. Seeing Roger Husband’s Notes above reminded me that I sat next to him in Latin classes given in Aysgarth , ground floor by the then new ’squeeky voiced ‘ Pee Wee Hunt. John Gosling in our class at that time was a bit of a school hardman & Roger Husband as I recall was rather slightly built & somewhat timid. A row betwen these two erupted to the extent that Roger overcame his fears & laid into JG & to much cheering coming out on top with Mr Hunt only an onlooker . Matters then subsided but , starting with the back row the class gradually dissapeared out of the classroom windows leaving the ’squeeking ‘Mr Hunt with a severely depleted class. Seeing Dave Ashwell’s name reminds me of the cross country runs with also Malcom Cross — Cross & Ashwell lived close to the playing fields from whence these runs started & the course went past one of their houses unbeknown to the sports staff so , pop in on the outward leg , have tea & join in fthe pack for the homeward sprint full of running! I think it was Dave Ashwell’s house that featured in the Surrey Comet one day for ‘ having an Elephant in the Garden ‘ as one had escaped & trundled across from Chessington Zoo.
Chas Hill , Howard Sheppard & I , sometimes Rob Wayne & Tony Arbour & when in the country , Baz Hewson meet up most Fridays in the WychElm , Elm Street ,Kingston upon Thames if anyone wants to turn up on spec & say ‘ Hello ‘ .
April 23, 2009 at 5:52 am
Hi Clive – welcome to the site.
Wouldn’t be surprised if you did thump me – people have been doing that to me for years!.
A few more names you may recall from that era – Upwood, Jim Dodson, Tony Lebras, Spittle, Tom Corn, Pendleton, Trog Norton, assorted Ashtons, Venables, Millett, Boyce, Morrell, Pope, Dillow, Brian Mullins, Nigel Peake, Niels Polden, Richard Gill, Ian Burhop, Bob Lieberman, Lewis Levin
Trevor Birmingham – yes, the only boy in 2C with a real moustache, and staggeringly ‘well-hung’.
By the way, briefly made contact with Mick Courtney last year. He is a pillar of the community in Claygate, serving both as a local councellor and a senior officer in his Church.
One final memory – does anyone recall the day the ancient and disgusting Sports Pavillion mysteriuosly burned down at the Playing Fields at Hook?
April 23, 2009 at 2:51 pm
OK Peter, got you now. Maybe “thump” goes further than I actually managed!
Found Mick C on Claygates Website, might get in touch – never sure after so long, what do you think?; Officer of the Church? he must have reformed – or not! Thanks for names – Nigel Peake, lived in Esher beside the railway. Had a physical peculiarity rumoured to be similar to Hitler’s……. teach him to stamp on my carrot patch (remember the allotments?). Levin – invented the Full Brazil – the Hook pavilion baths allowing no secrets! Probably why they were burned down. Another name, Peter White, who I think had a younger brother at SCGS.
As for G&S I was in two productions (chorus! with Polden as lead) before my voice broke, then found myself as a second violin in the main orchestra.
Many more memories flooding back – more blog later if anyone cares!
April 27, 2009 at 12:21 pm
I feel sure Mick Courtney would like to hear from you. I might be interesting to learn what happened to John & David Courtney.
I remember the allotments only by name. Personally never ever ventured around behind that huge brick wall. I do remember Colin Bridge
( now an accomplished Clarinet player in a major
Orchestra), being an ardent gardener able to do stunning things with a rake and trowel! Never saw any actual vegetables grown there.
Must have been in the same two G&S productions (Pinafore and The Pirates of Penzance). At least with my girth and appearance, I only ever had to sing in the mens’ chorus.
A few more names that you might remember:
Roy Wernham (a former Ombudsman, and now also heavily involved with his local Church – what is it about SCGS training?)
Brian Harding
Steve Triggs
Hughie something
Mike (Angus) Hind
Lincoln Waller ( spoke better French than Jock Lonsdale)
Graham Hatherley
Graham Pirnie
Tony Maybey
By the way, where are you living these days?
April 28, 2009 at 9:43 pm
The www has been buzzing ! Trawling through the 1957 “Surbitonian” for mention of Clive Nunn—sorry mate!—I find one more name for my class of ’57 in the House Boxing results-Absolom-Idon’t remember him unless he was a small 2nd year. I also found Brand in the third year boxing –Courtney M duffed Courtney J, Turner did for Mick Hoad ( who, last I heard from Stef Dreja ,wasn’t very well) –Gerry Mercer beat Smith B
Mick Chandler beat Hans Mock. Looking at the names of the prefects and the sixth formers I am reminded of how large they seemed to me and I was not a small 11year old- to some of my smaller peers they must have seemed like giants.
Surbiton Lagoon -now a housing estate- the main school was Albery House I think. Yes youth (and Education !!) is wasted on the young –oh for my 18 yr old body with the scars and laughs that I accumulated over the following 40 plus!!
In reply to David Hall I must say how bemused and amused I am at “Littleproud “and “congregation “ being used in the same breath-however we are a broad church and prepared to forgive and welcome all lost sinners who have found the true path!!-I shall rely on Messrs Courtney and Wernham to resolve any theological issues that may arise. I recognise most of the names you mention in your “festering “ group-Graham Hill was at primary school with me as was Howard Sheppard who joined SCGS in the sixth form from Hollyfield Road. I am afraid that I do not remember yourself and Messrs Stanley, Connolly and Gosling. Not appreciating Modern Jazz I would have been a bit hoi polloi for your group- I think I was more into motor bikes !! I did have coffee at both Rob Waynes and Rob Andrews-most congenial hosts they were. Do you remember Stefan Dreja organising “JaZz at the Oak” in Maple Road? I heard from Hugh Williams, who joined SCGS in the sixth form,told me that Mick Warren had died and that Rob Wayne had lost his brother. To continue being maudlin Tim Pines and Mick Puggard-Moller were killed in car crashes –Quentin Finch was killed trying to land a helicopter on an oil rig.
Lighter vein –Myself ,Dreja and Wayne plus one other used to sit in the back row of one of those rooms just off the entrance hall of Albery house. When “Cyril” Parsons was trying to teach us maths we would play air guitar a les Shadows–one summers day with the French windows open Stefan’s chair got tossed into the grounds –he goes to get it –we lock the door on him! 5 minutes Stef is trying to explain to Cyril heicoming back in the classroom carrying a chair. Poor Mr Parsons — we were so unkind to him-I bollock my own son for such behaviour! –as we said youth and education…….
Once worked for the same company as Mick Courtney about 20 years ago –me in Bristol, him in London.
David please convey my best wishes to the Friday night conclave –if ever I’m in Kingston on a Friday night I will turn up, but why the Wych Elm?
Pity about the Hook Pavilion- surely a gem of it’s type- all the nails sticking out of the floor like reverse studs! It should have been listed—wonder who done it ?
Re Peter Pocock’s last, I remember most of the names-I even have photos (when I get a scanner!!) even though they were my seniors and can put faces to them-except for Steve Triggs and Tony Maybey (this name seems very familiar -but not a face)
April 29, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Its question time folks….
Having yesterday celebrated being born in 1942, I got to thinking just how many utterly unimportant facts about SCGS I could remember. As you can see, I have definitelty gone a bit crazy, but here goes:
What make and colour was the car Doig dr0ve?
What was the name of the poor old Groundsman at the ill-fated Pavillion at Hook?
Which short-lived English Teacher went to live in Mauritius where he got the job of “mystery voice” on Mauritius Radio version of 20 Questions?
Who coined the phrase ” “who’s feminine – my Aunt Kate’s Canary ?”
What was the Cadet Corps’ secret training weapon, kept locked in a garage at the side of Aysgarth?
Where was the “Pound Annual Sale” held and by whom?
Why does no-one seem to remember the Libary with its cozy little club of Nerds who spent all breaktimes, classifying utterly boring books. Who was the “Librarian”
What was a “Yik Man”, and can you still draw one ( tricky question)
How many “entries” were given for not wearing the dreaded School cap?
There was an apology for a tuck shop set up, lasting only a few months. Where was it located?
What was the most popular lunch (?) served in the Dining Hall and as a follow-up, where did the Sandwich Boys sit?
What brand of cigarettes was the most popular at SCGS?
Sorry – “er Indoors” just looked over my shoulder and commented that I had totally flipped. As usual, right of course.
Answers on a postcard please.
Dave – please get a scanner – can’t wait to see some old faces
April 29, 2009 at 6:20 pm
All right Istill have a library book in my posession.Tuck shop at the end of the physics lab.Sandwich boys ina downstairs classroom in Braemer.
April 30, 2009 at 10:26 am
Two correct so far Richard. Can’t think of any titles there that were worth keeping, and certainly not for 40 odd years.
April 30, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Ok Peter
A J Doig’s car–pass
Groundsman –Mr Jolly-used to sell soft drinks
Cader corps secret weapon –25 pounder field gun
Library –for a man with a grammar school education you’re a bit scathing about books -I well remember the rush to get to the library to read the latest “Eagle”-”Paris Match” was not commonly found in my end of Kingston and I was a devoted fan of “Punch” almost on arrival at SCGS-I’m grateful to the library and those nerds who made the books easy to find-but then again I have always been a bookworm-my book collection is grounds for divorce in our house-oh the answer to your question—D.W. Adams, R. Barnes, Tony Cator, W Perfect, R Stuart, G C Smith, P Dawson, R Venables, P White, A French, J Edward, A Robinson and R White all under the watchful of Mr Parrot- who, I think, went to live in Mauritius!! Do I get “Nerd of the Year 2009″ ??
One entry for not wearing a cap.
The tuck shop was at the end of the physics lab -I think it closed down because it was robbed.
most popular lunch was probably “yesterday’s” potatoes served up fried-I was well enamoured of the butterscotch tart-for institutional food I think the cooks did quite well.
I only get away with this because “er indoors “is out working keeping me in the manner to which I have become accustomed-she thinks I’m a bit flipped too!
Printer is a bit dodgy-kids need it for school work –Yep I still got one of each GCSE and AS levels looming next month so scanner could come with new printer -must see what home grown computer guru says.
Richard -write out twenty times in your general book Braemar-Braemar etc
April 30, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hey Peter- I’ve still got my “O” level maths book and some of my exercise books Mauritius!! Do I get “Nerd of the Year 2009″ and Bar or at least with Oak Leaf Cluster -Croix de Something ??
April 30, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hey Peter- I’ve still got my “O” level maths book and some of my exercise books. Do I get “Nerd of the Year 2009″ and Bar or at least with Oak Leaf Cluster -Croix de Something ??
May 1, 2009 at 6:14 am
Not bad Dave! You passed on only one. As I recall, Doig had cute little pale blue Austin A40, more suited to a Midwife’s runaround than a Headmaster’s vehicle.
Would have awarded you the title of Mastermind 2009, but for the heinous crime of nicking school property.
Glad to see that the “Yik Man” has not yet been identified.
For the record, where did you find the full list of Library staff. Adams, I recall was a genial Prefect in his 3rd year in 6th form, mercilessly taunted by everyone. Library was probably his only safe haven.
Just unearthed a complete set of original ‘O’ level exam papers for 1958, and ‘A’ level for 1960. Looking back at the subject material, with the possible exceptions of French and German, it is hard to see any relevance to life over the next 40 years. (Probably more my fault than SCGS).
May 1, 2009 at 9:43 am
Peter my memory seems to be quite good but not perfect-I could remember that one of the librarians was a ginger fellow but not his name – the list comes from the 1957 edition of “The Surbitonian” which confirms that the afore mentioned gentleman was Tony Cator-a nice chap.
During the demolition of Braemar about 1960 Alan Kemp and I were cycling past when we noticed that the remains were on fire. We parked ourselves on a window cill to watch it burn. When the police and fire brigade arrived they were not impressed with our having not informed them. As we emphatically told them ” you don’t get a chance to watch your school burn down every day”-it was replaced with a gym and a design and technology block –pity.
On the surface those “O” levels told the world that Peter had a brain-underneath they were a window to show what a great interesting world is out there -trouble is that education is wasted on….Perhaps the staff/sysyem were unable to use it in that way? Why was I happy to see my school burn down –why did I find it all such a drag—not all my fault –but not all theirs either.
Shut up David! -too philosophical this early in the morning.
May 4, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Never to early in the day for a little philosopy Dave.
I know all that stuff about education broadening the mind and creating a questioning mind, and of course that’s true. My beef is that so much of what we were expected to learn/remember was irrelevant but was treated as being the most essential knowledge, to be absorbed and stored away for future use. ( The saddest day was when Masters, the quiet dignified teacher of carpentry sadly died. That was the end of my possibly useful training in how to cut and plane a tent-peg.)
Where’s the learning in being able to conjugate Latin verbs? Who amongst us routinely identifies and proves congruency in triangles? (OK – I bet someone out there does it for a living). What use was the ability to recall the names of the first 10 Vice Presidents in USA? Who but Fred Fenyhough ever saw the relevance of debating whether or not Corneille was more “unvraisemblable” than Molliere?
When it came to such esoteric topics as Fletcher’s Trolley, Boyle’s Law, Log Tables, Hydra and Amoeba, my case rests. ( I lie – I once got a Trivil Pursuit question on Boyle and his law).
Perhaps all I am saying is that probably education in general in the 50’sand 60’s was treated as an end in itself, not just in SCGS, and probably because we never needed to worry about finding good jobs after leaving School/University, there was little attention paid to career advice – if you exclude Bert Forward’ often puzzling guidance.
Having got that off my chest – I consider myself truly fortunate to have been at the school, and am eternally grateful to the assorted staff who for the most part, did a good job. With or without the data bank of knowledge they gave me, I have had a full and satisfying life and career, and perhaps most telling of all, have the self assurance to put my thoughts down on a public forum – which would have been unthinkable as an 11 year old fresh out of primary school!
May 4, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I agree with Peter. “Trivial Pursuit” just about sums it up. I commenced gathering all relevant and pertinent information upon leaving school. Upon being asked recently, ‘how’s life?’ I replied ‘absolutely marvellous thank you – particularly when you consider the alternative’.
But there again, I am fortunate to be probably one of the happiest people alive – that is, as far as I am aware.
It is with regret however, that I have to say if I am scrupulously honest, that I cannot put hand on heart and say that this wonderful status quo is really and truly anything whatsoever attributable to my time spent at SCGS apart that is, from having had the privilege of being taught on sadly only rare occasions by the saintly Mr. Walmsley to whom I have referred herein above and who left such an impression upon me as a man of real stature so as to leave me effortlessly capable of invoking sobriety, respect and honourable behaviour plus a veritable plethora of other considered virtuous modes of conduct when the occasion demands [even during a continuing vigourous lifetime spent in pursuance of all those things money cannot buy - without a television by choice, with alternate intervals listening to music, reading, some travel or work at home with seasonably appropriate interludes for dedicated dissipation.]
It is regrettable that I was unable to witness these exemplary characteristics in few if any of the other members of staff to any comparable degree. I was lucky in life to have been handed at a young age, the ability to perceive men of calibre even at a distance and to be sensitive enough so as to understand what it is to be able to ‘feel’ an one enter a crowded room. Such a man, in my opinion, was old Wormo.
May 5, 2009 at 6:31 am
On a more mundane level, Roger, what subject(s) did Walmsley teach. I can see him clearly roaming the pathways, in, I agree, a fairly dignified manner, but I never actually met him in the classroom.
By the way, I believe his son, Martin was a 6th former, around the mid-late 50’s – also tall, dignified and extremely charming.
Surely though, there were a few other candidates for ’sainthood’. Alan Bolt and Geof Harris-Ide were at times eccentric, but normally courteous and professional. Jock Lonsdale epitomised fairness, and was at the same time, a good and entertaining teacher, who made no concessions to suburban Surrey prejudice against his accent. In his somewhat surly way, Slug Rigden had a special presence, and was arguably the best prepared teacher in terms of organising his materials and establishing learning objectives. Given half a chance, and a better set of dentures, even Sid Capper had a few good points!
Yes, there were sadists, bores, and frankly, staff who were simply not suited to the profession. Maybe that was the point. Maybe that was the preparation for life outside SCGS – the world is full of saints, sinners, sadists, bores, mediocrities and relatively normal people!
By the way Roger, I too lived in Oxshott ( Sheath Lane). Did you ever know the Balkwills or the Thompsons?
May 5, 2009 at 7:14 am
Peter, Mr Walmsley taught maths.
May 5, 2009 at 8:38 am
Once again I agree with you Peter although I was not taught by either Jock or Slug so am not in any position to comment. Alan Bolt was an excellent man whom I knew indirectly through the sister of a friend in East Horsley with whom he used to go riding. No, I didn’t know the families you mention although I can remember you being in Sheath Lane.
Mr. Walmsley taught Mathematics and caught me red handed making a disruptive device in class. The first thing I knew was a heavy hand placed firmly on my shoulder accompanied by the quiet question ‘Now Rimmer, what seems to be the problem?’ (pointing to my work with his other hand) He proceeded to run through my recent progress commenting that ‘this was right, that’s correct’ etc., etc., and then lightly thumped me on the shoulder with a clenched fist saying ‘come on – get on with it’ and making no reference to the gadget which he didn’t even confiscate! That was the very moment, I learned respect from this master and was the model student. I responded completely to positive correction. Any man who took a stick to my butt thereby confessed to me that not only had he failed completely as a teacher to inspire me, but had also failed utterly as a man in that he was effectively bullying a teenage boy. I was frankly, frightened by Lefty but disgusted by Gus who in the words of a neighbour at Oxshott, ‘just liked hitting people’ – a view I find hard with which to disagree.
I was well behaved during English Literature with Nutty Bolt also, since he responded to any wise cracks by commenting as to whether they were sensible or not. He was partly responsible for my lifelong love of Shakespeare although I have to thank mother initially for singing sonnets to me in my cot whilst playing unaccompanied Bach on her violin. This was also my introduction to spontaneous improvisation which led on to a lifelong love of bebop and some successive forms of contemporary jazz.
So ‘yes, of course’ there must have been other good teachers there and I suppose my opinion was teinted by the fact that old man Rimmer was General Secretary of the N.A.H.T. in Claremont Road, Surbiton for a while which Doig must have known about since they were in touch with each other about ‘the boy’. By this means however, I had direct information about salaries and what was said back stage.
As long as I can remember, teachers have grizzled about the Burnham Scales (as it used to be) and their low pay whereas when you looked into it, they had a comparatively cushy deal really. A friend of mine with whom I used to imbibe all too frequently told me straight that he went into teaching for the wrong reasons – the high rate of pay and the long paid holidays which gave him time to enjoy his hobbies. Yet there are still teachers moaning about their lot!!! I put it down to the limitations of academic goggles. A year in the outside world of commerce might perhaps prove beneficial to any complainant?
May 5, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Well, this Blog was fun, and getting better – a crowd of sexagnarian schoolboys reminiscing over old times.
Then along comes Mr. Rimmer.
I read the first submission right from the (incorrect) Maurice Chevalier quote, with growing disbelief eventually tempered by pity whenI got to the self delusional claptrap at the end. Response? Ignore it, as I usually ignore the psuedo-intellectual ramblings of Steven Fry, who at least has the excuse of a bi-polar personality disorder.
May 5, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Well, this Blog was fun, and getting better – a crowd of sexagnarian schoolboys reminiscing over old times.
Then along comes Mr. Rimmer.
I read the first submission, from the (incorrect) Maurice Chevalier quote, with growing disbelief eventually tempered by pity when I got to the self delusional claptrap at the end. Response? Ignore it, as I usually ignore the psuedo-intellectual ramblings of Steven Fry, who at least has the excuse of a bi-polar personality disorder. Then came Submission 2.
NOW I have to take exception. Rimmer you are NOT happy! All that underlying vitriol and hatred coupled with so much rambling verbal candy indicates that you may have a deep seated problem – you should perhaps seek help.
One of your ill thought out and offensive comments however needs a specific response.
My daughter, one of the many fruits of my 46 year marriage, is Assistant Head (that is a type of Teacher) at a 1000+ student Secondary school in a seriously deprived inner city area. Other, more knowledgable, readers will know just what that entails.
That’s more than enough for now – can we get back to basics? or is this the inevitable end to a good idea…….
Anyone else have an Ian Allan trainspotters book?
And somebody else must remember Hinchley Wood Girls School……….
May 5, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Peter, I missed answering your last question. The family names you mention both ring a distant bell but I cannot say I remember either really. I knew most of the people in that part of the village by house names since that was where one of my rounds was. I would have delivered your papers if you used Weedons? June obviously wrote the house names on the papers in preference to the recipient’s surnames so I never came to know who was who.
May 6, 2009 at 5:29 am
Clive, with only 6 ‘o’ levels it is probably not suprising that the more oblique references in your post have gone over my head. However, your rudeness hasn’t. Everyone has the right to express their views and everyone has the right to respond, but not in the rude and obnoxious way that you did. If you are unable to present your views in a respectful way then I suggest you keep them to yourself.
May 6, 2009 at 5:50 am
OK Clive – down to earth…..
Vaguely remember the “Anarak and Tizer” group at the end of the platform at Surbiton station. Probably wrong but the names Coates-Smith, Tregurtha, Pendleton, Kitcher and Bridge stand out as regulars.
For the more sophisticated amongst us, there was an Ian Allen Bus spotter book too – how about that for a pointless exercise.
Do you remember a particularly tough kid called Shepherd. Used to ride a snazzy racing bike when not causing mayhem.Very intimidating but I eventually managed to avoid being attacked by him by discovering that we had a shared admiration for Fats Domino.
Just had another ‘flash-back’. In our first year, Geography was taught by the venerable Neville Holdaway. He had the conviction that geography was by far the most important subject taught in the school, and was obsessed with how we looked after our weighty geog. ring binders.We all had to buy boxes of file hole re-enforcers, and Bambi staplers to maintain the pages in pristine condition. There were daily inspections, and hours spent instructing us on how to use coloured pencils to achieve an even finish ( you had to rub the colouring with blotting paper). Sadly he died later in 1953 I think, handing over to a much more tolerant Jack Skene.
Anyone remember Noble – a music teacher with an amazing baritone voice. Also just had a vision of a sad faced, evil hearted prefect called Maud.
I always thought Hinchley Wood was a co-ed school, Clive. Rough bunch as I recall – the boys actually played soccer.
Hope that’s brought the site back to your expectations Clive.
May 6, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Colin – ‘only 6 ‘O’ levels’ ? I’d have said that was pretty good considering, if I remember correctly, you needed just five to enter articles in law provided that three of the five were Mathematics, English and English Literature. I imagine, but don’t know since I didn’t enquire, that the other major professions would have had similar requirements?
Maybe you should have been in a higher class?
May 7, 2009 at 5:05 am
Hi Roger, accountancy required either 5 passes at 6 or above in one sitting or 6 in two. I got the latter. Got 4 in the first sitting and two in the second, including art which I took as I knew I wouldn’t have to revise for it! Didn’t expect to pass it though and when the miracle happened, noone was more suprised than me!
As to being in a higher class, I think my struggles at A level showed that I was where I should have been!
May 7, 2009 at 9:11 am
Gently boys, gently!! We have all made a long journey since we stepped off of Surbiton Hill Road for the first time. Our years there gave each of us different perceptions and the ensuing nearly 50 years have emphasised,changed rejected or “whatever” those perceptions. On this website we have all returned to a mutual collective root–obviously from different directions. We have all had different kicks and cuddles which have made us who we are. If we read between the lines more than was intended to be said then let’s try and be kind.
Ok sermon over -lets get back to this fun website –all welcome –as I said we are a broad church.
May 7, 2009 at 9:38 am
Well said, Dave.
May 7, 2009 at 9:40 am
Colin is correct. Mr Walmsley did indeed teach maths very well -I never heard him raise his voice and I sat next to Tony Harriman -not good for either of us– one day I brought in the “crying bit” from one of my little sister’s dolls -you know you tip it and it goes “waaaaahhhh!!” Any teacher would have killed us!!
A lovely man -we didn’t deserve him but he was what many teachers should have been. Iwas told very early in my time at SCGS that “Gus” enjoyed hitting people for no reason and that one should steer very clear of him.
“Slug” Rigden was on the surface quite dour-as i progressed through the school Ifound him to be a kind , amusing man. In the sixth form he became a sort of tutor to me seeing me through a few traumas.
At the end of term when he retired the whole school spontaneously burst in to “For He’s a jolly good fellow” and repeated it 3 times. The only time in my memory that a retiring master got that appreciation.
I don’t think it was ” trivial pursuit ” (in fairness one of my favourite games ) at SCGS -it was to open windows -funnily enough some of the things that Peter Pocock mentions I have had to use-the survey of India was carried out a series of triangles-maybe even a congruent one -something “Holy Joe taught me in about 1958 I used “in action” in about 1992. I did have to google “Fletcher’s Trolley”-which was probably quite handy if one was designing road surfaces or tyre tread patterns and how did one do big sums before calculators?
Life is an educational journey – SCGS was one of the first faltering steps -give Colin’s teacher daughter credit for what she is trying to do-I know I couldn’t do it. Like our teachers she probably has some pretty dodgy clay to mould.
May 7, 2009 at 9:43 am
Sorry I mean’t Clive Nunn’s daughter.
“Life is an educational journey – SCGS was one of the first faltering steps -give Colin’s teacher daughter credit for what she is trying to do-I know I couldn’t do it. Like our teachers she probably has some pretty dodgy clay to mould.”
Silly David !!
May 7, 2009 at 10:56 am
Sound comment Dave.
May 7, 2009 at 11:52 am
Hello boys I hope you don’t mind me butting in on your sureal little world , my mind is still a teenager but my body is now a pensioner ! I wonder if any of you remember the school cleaners? My great aunt Ivy Collins was one, you might remember her from her hair which she plaited and then wrapped around her head, she was a bit of a prangster herself with a wicked sense of humour so she loved all the antics that you got up to! Is anyone prepared to own up to the lobster down the toilet after all these years? Does anyone remember Keith [Spud] Bird he left in 1961, I was his girlfriend at the time and I remember going to a dance at the scool after first having a drink in the Railway Tavern? I went to Hollyfield, I passed my 13 + and went into the art group which attracted students from all over surrey , including Eric Clapton from your school. We used to hang out at 35 Ewell road and at break times Eric ,Chris Dreja and Tony Topham used to play their guitars and so the “Yardbirds “were born.
May 7, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I just knew someone out there would have found a use for congruent triangles. Hopefully Google Earth has finally put them to bed.
Roger – re your stint as a paperboy, I think the Balkwills lived in “Small Lodge” (or was it “Red Lodge”). He was a very senior executive in BBC, and as such had probably the first TV set in Oxshott so maybe he didn’t need a daily visit from the whistling Paperboy.
Back to nostalgia ( or retournons a nos moutons) as Jock used to say). I notice on re-reading the blogs that apart from the occasional mention of Scum Turner’s rantings, no-one seems to recall how truly terrifying they could be. He literally changed his personality, during a Scum Fit, and became violent, dangerous and unpredictable. On one famous occasion help arrived in the form of Fernyhough I think, who was passing the door and felt obliged to come in to see what was happening.
After a few whispered words, Scum calmed down.
The sad thing is that he probably had multiple Scum Fits in the course of an average day. Wonder what he was like at home.
Delighted to hear that Slug Rigden got an ovation on his last day, Dave. Great teacher, whose appearance belied a very good sense of humour, and seemingly, compassion.
Did anyone out there ever have the curious experience of having Doig teaching them. He used to make unexpected guest appearances, ostensibly to teach Maths, but quickly changed the topic to a series of weird ramblings, obcure quizzes, and general Doig thoughts on very little. ( on one such quiz, he asked who were Alan Silitoe and John Osborn. One bright spark infuriated him by saying that they both played for Chelsea)
May 8, 2009 at 8:49 am
Hi Ros, don’t remember Spud that well, but do remember playing football with him for Giltec with Tony Hall amongst others. Small world!
May 8, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Hello Colin I am so glad somebody remembers him, after scgs he went to Manchester Uni to study civil engineering,we kept in touch until 1967 when I married, I have recently made contact with one of his cousins through Genes Reunited,who told me he is now in New Zealand. Yes he did love his football! I think he may have worked on the building of the Channel Tunnel but that has not been confirmed yet, you are a great bunch of lads and I love this website, keep it up, Ros
May 9, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Ros -Spud was in my class from 2b onwards.Jock Lonsdale always called him Monsieur Oiseau. I last saw him in the Fish and Chip shop on Ewell Rd opposite the old Police Station,in about 1968. He was one of the good guys.
May 10, 2009 at 9:56 am
Thank you for that Richard, yes I hope he still is one of the good guys! His parents had a newsagents in Surbiton Hill Park and he spent a lot of his time delivering papers. I think I remember Tony Hall, was he a goalkeeper?keith belonged to Kingston Boys Club so I might be getting mixed up with his friends from there. If I ever get in touch with him I will definitely tell him about this blog.
May 11, 2009 at 4:10 am
Hi Ros, no, Tony was a ‘not so dynamic’ midfield player…lacked a bit of pace! In fact he is still as quick as he was then! By the way, Tony’s nickname was ‘Tufty’. Might jog a memory or two. He lives in Woking now.
May 11, 2009 at 8:18 am
I was lucky enough to have escaped the sight of a full scale “Scum Fit”-I know that me and my peers had been warned about him on day one at SCGS. I was howevr ver lucky -He once me accused of cheating in one of his exams ( I wasn’t)-Idenied it and waited for the “fit ” -perhaps the gravity of the occasion calmed him -all he did was to say that he would punish me by docking 50% of the marks I had already got. And that was the end of it -pheeewww!
But why on earth did we put up with him? He was a grenade with the pin out. His whole personality was on a perpetual short fuse. Did none of us say anything to our parents? How did he behave with his sixth form pupils? Why was there no inter group monitoring among the teachers?
I think I spent more time in abject terror of “Gus” in GCE year than I did learning maths. Brrrrr!
May 11, 2009 at 9:50 am
Hello Colin, my apologies to Tony,I must have lost quite a lot of brain cells in the last 47 years, the only Tufty I remember is the Tufty Club!I could never keep up with the pace ,but I can be pretty dynamic, or do I mean manic, when it comes to researching family history.”Oh to be in Kingston Record Office now that Spring is here”, I am exiled in Suffolk where my husbands roots are, but my family have been in Surrey at least since the 1600s. Sorry I am getting boring now, have a good day boys.
Ros.
May 11, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Dave: Entertainment value? Surely everyone who witnessed a full scale fit wondered whether he was going to actually flip right out permanently? It was a first for me.
May 14, 2009 at 8:37 pm
I joined in 1954 and left in 1960. I can recall many of the names in the previous posts. Keith Piggott and I flew to Paris in an old Dakota one weekend for a p***up when we should have been revising for the exams. One of my many favourite recollections were the saturday night jazz balls held in the school hall.
I was the unlucky guy handed the test tube containing the residue of the highly explosive mix of Nitrogen Triodide scattered across the stage when Doig slung his bible down on the lectern on the last day of term. I was pushed out of the rear door by a senior prefect and told to scat as chaos ensued behind me.
May 23, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Mention of the Yardbirds by Ros started a whole new trip down memory lane. One day in 1961 or 1962 the music scene switched from Trad Jazz to Rock and Roll.One Saturdy night we were at Eel Pie Island dancing to Acker Bilk,next week it was the Rolling stones..When the Stones got big then there were the Yardbirds.I remember being at the Anchor in Kingston listening to the AnimalsI am sure that every body has ther own experience of th e shift in the Zeitgist.,which of course did not involve just the music,it was clothes ,the food ,the pill.What a great time to be growing up..
May 24, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Well fellas, particularly Peter Pocock, try this link and let me know what happens
http://i44.tinypic.com/2wgbtaw.jpg
pc advisor may have to advise a bit more!!
May 24, 2009 at 12:22 pm
hmmmmm seems to work!!
May 24, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Well Richard now you have done it! I went with some school friends in about 1962 to Eel Pie Island to see the Yardbirds, and the Stones were playing there as well,, when neither of them were very well known, perhaps I was biased but I didn’t think much of them, and my opinion hasn’t changed much over the years, although I do like Rock music, and will dance to anything. I still have all my vinyl records and a Dansette to play them on, it’s a real mixture of music styles from the fifties onwards, and my children added to the collection in their teenage years. I remember going to a trad jazz dance at Kingston Baths , and I still have my copy of Acker Bilk’s ,Stranger on The Shore that Keith bought me, we were so lucky to have so much to choose from, even my husband says that the sixties were a very special time,and he only really liked Folk and Classical! I think we were all very lucky to have been teenagers then, I just hope I will still be around to see what my grandchildren will be into in about 10 years time, I hope they have as much fun as we did!
May 25, 2009 at 4:46 am
Dave, given my lack of IT skills I opened it with some trepidation – wow. That bought back a few memories. (I had forgotten how much I hated wearing glasses and used to take them off at any opportunity even if it meant I couldn’t see a thing). Many thanks.
May 25, 2009 at 11:21 am
Peter, it worked for me but it only had to go a few inches -you ,I believe, are a bit further away!! It was not as easy as I had hoped -although I can copy text to this site I haven’t solved it for images -I tried to send an image to Dave Ashwell by email to no avail so i had to send an attachment -so far it ahsn’t been rejected -but Dave hasn’t replied yet. howeve I shall send more pictures.
May 26, 2009 at 7:52 am
Just a thought Dave – if computers had been around in the late 50’s, I wonder which of our intrepid staff would have been most suited to teaching IT.
It would have needed someone with a logical, analytical mind, interested in modern technologies and able to deliver a clear message – mmm…..
My nomination would be someone like Sid Capper, or possibly Eddy Watkins.
May 26, 2009 at 11:18 am
Peter- there is a poem -the theme of which is that had the young Helen of Troy had been laughed at while dancing there would have been no “Iliad” and no “Odyssey”-just think what Eddie watkins and his tent peg could have done to a young Bill Gates!!
Dear old Sid-I think he would have liked IT- might have helped us appreciate French more.
Now imagine Scum with a recalcitrant (wheeee! first time since Feb 1945 that I have typed “recalcitrant”) computer or calculator-I expect he would have burnt them at Eddie Watkins tent peg- I’ve just got it -he was a combined reincarnation (wheee!!etc) of Ximines and Torquemada-can’t you just see him in 16c Spain in one of those pointy hats ??
Will get down to posting more pictures.
May 27, 2009 at 10:00 am
Wouldn’t mind a picture of Ximines – who was he? Even Google doesn’t seem to have heard of him
May 27, 2009 at 10:50 am
Peter-obviously-# Francisco Ximénez de Cisneros, archbishop of Toledo 1507 – 1517–I thought everbody knew that-he’s well referenced in the Monty Python sketch !
Seriously -sorry my spelling and Spanish pronunciation had slipped -the next wikip ref calls him Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros-but I read about the Spanish Inquisition peripharally around my A level history.
If you google this ref “Francisco Jiménez de Cisneros” there is a picture.
Still imagine Scum in a pointy hat -armed with a rack and red hot pincers!!
May 27, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Got him now. Looks a bit like Scum trying to be calm, and the ‘group shot’ on the wiki page could well be an SCGS Staff meeting.
Fortunately, my A level history was all about US history from Independence to the Civil War, as interpreted by Bert Forward – much more entertaining.
May 27, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Yes I had the luck to do that bit of history with Bert- (too much John Wayne and a bit of reading meant that I knew more about the Alamo than he did )-but I also did European 1660-1914 with Zorro and English 1660-1914 with Slug. I wish I had appreciated it all more then.
May 27, 2009 at 1:56 pm
testing
http://i39.tinypic.com/fq9uv.jpg
May 27, 2009 at 1:58 pm
ha ha it works -nothing scurrilous but apologies to Keith Masters!!
May 27, 2009 at 2:24 pm
testing
May 27, 2009 at 2:24 pm
so why won’t it pickup the link??
May 27, 2009 at 2:25 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2z71vee/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:26 pm
???
May 27, 2009 at 2:34 pm
http://hp674e42/scan/image1.jpg?id=0&type=2&size=2&fmt=1&time=1243434594895
May 27, 2009 at 2:46 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2mpz789/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:47 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2ed1kko/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:50 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/9auuxi/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:54 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/a0eau/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:57 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/21c8cjr/5
May 27, 2009 at 2:59 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2e1ucnk/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:03 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/ehhw6b/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:06 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2ajvzfc/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:09 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2sbo752/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:13 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2ldhzxh/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:17 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2djuikg/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:20 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/ebebdk/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:23 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2h6wsiw/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:25 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/20uq0b4/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:29 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2qj9d9e/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:31 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2m6lwr9/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:34 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/1zcmqhe/5
May 27, 2009 at 3:57 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/2hd8c5s/5
May 27, 2009 at 4:02 pm
http://tinypic.com/r/wveomh/5
May 28, 2009 at 5:20 am
Dave I am lost for words. Apart from the fact that every pic. was either upside down or at best sideways on, a truly amazing collection. (OK, I bet somewhere there’s a little button that enables you to rotate, but I had to resort to twisting the laptop around)
Speech Day in the open air in the grounds? Whatever happened to the Coronation Hall at Kingston Baths?
Prefects in 1963 with no Doig or Bert in the photo?
Fernyhough looking much older than I ever remember him.
I believe Michael Basman went on to become a Chess Grand Master.
Those wonderful Surrey Comet photos of the G&S productions ( Is there still a Surrey Comet).
Terrific stuff.
May 28, 2009 at 7:18 am
Peter-I was so chuffed that I had managed to get them on
this site that and that I had a rhythm going that Imissed that little point -still done it now. Could do with titles too-I’m creased up with a vision of your audience wondering why you are juggling with your laptop!
Perhaps I’ll redo them.
Any way glad you enjoyed them.
Does anyone out there have the magazines 1957-58 and 1962-63 and a scanner? -and indeed any other “Surbitonians”
May 28, 2009 at 7:26 am
The Braemar Club
The Braemar Club was established some twenty years ago by two rugby/cricket stalwarts of ‘yesteryear’, Pete Newland and Dick Blackman.
Within the ranks of our membership are many former players of The Old Surbitonians rugby and cricket clubs and other non-players who are also former pupils of Surbiton County Grammar School.
We are not an Old Boys organisation but do provide contact for old friends with similar interests and are the guardians of the Memorial Board on which are printed the names of former schoolboys of Surbiton personally known to some of our older members. The ground is dedicated to these Surbitonians who lost their lives in the service of their country (1939-45).
Braemar is not an exclusive club but is open to any former players of Old Surbs/CSA who are recommended for membership. Present membership is about 100. Any former player who would like further information please contact either Pete ( 01296-730516 ) or Stuart (014834-769150).
Stuart R. Davies & Pete Newland
May 28, 2009 at 4:59 pm
TESTING
1-Albury house-1959 http://tinypic.com/r/4fvj1l/5
May 28, 2009 at 5:00 pm
BINGO!!-watch this space
May 28, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I was at Surbiton County Grammar School from 1949 – 1955 (yes I was another one who stayed on for an extra year to get enough ‘O’ levels. Have just spent an enjoyable couple of hours reading through all the above (what else is there to do when you are approaching 71??). I remember all of the teachers mentioned and was the recipient of a Gus Hillier bash on the back of the head just because “I am in a bad mood”. Remember many of the famous rants of Dr Turner but also the great teaching and dedication of most of the others.
Any one out there remember the Majic Lantern art shows put on by Mr Busby. I wonder for how long this venerable machine continued.
Having looked through the names of the pupils there are a few I recognise having played for the 1st
XVI as hooker in the 1954-55 season (I was the short fat one with fair hair).
I seem to remember a few more from that season,
Dave Hughes, Eric Russell, Dennis Cottrell, Ray do Jardine etc.
Also remember the King brothers mentioned above, who if I remember correctly were great water polo players.
I was glad to see mention of the tuck shop in the Physics lab, because I actually helped ther in 1955.
My only other cclaim to fame is that in 1958 whilst doing my National Service in Schleswig (North Germany) we played against the Navy at Keil. We beat them something like 36-34 and a guy on their team scored all 34 points. He was the late, great Carwyn James, a Welsh Rugby int ernational
May 28, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Lordy!! Ialways wanted to be moderated!!
May 28, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Looks like site won’t let me post links to piccys
2-1957 Seven-a-Side http://tinypic.co/r/2e33k46/5
May 28, 2009 at 9:35 pm
3-Cresswell- 1957 http://tinypic.com/r/2w7n2b6/5
May 28, 2009 at 9:57 pm
4-Polden 1957 http://tinypic.com/r/348fup0/5
May 28, 2009 at 9:58 pm
5-House Boxing 1957 http://tinypic.com/r/2gsjwqw/
May 28, 2009 at 9:58 pm
6-Prefects 1958-59 http://tinypic.com/r/oa6hdi/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:24 pm
7-1958-59 http://tinypic.com/r/1g3xox/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:25 pm
8-Sports Day 1—1959 http://tinypic.com/r/11rsw7a/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:25 pm
9-Sports Day 2—1959 http://tinypic.com/r/2ntem9e/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:25 pm
10-String Trio-1959 http://tinypic.com/r/9b9m37/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm
11-Pirates-1959 http://tinypic.com/r/2yzkefn/5
May 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm
12-Aysgarth -1959 http://tinypic.com/r/1qnxw8/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:16 pm
13-U14 1958-59 http://tinypic.com/r/30wqz29/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:16 pm
14-Boxing-Club-1958-59 http://tinypic.com/r/2ntwj82/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:17 pm
15-1st-XV 1959-60 http://tinypic.com/r/6qv7dx/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:17 pm
16-Prefects- 1959-60 http://tinypic.com/r/zk4u84/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:18 pm
17-Braemar –G&S-1959-60 http://tinypic.com/r/s4theo/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:18 pm
18-Colts XV 1959-60 http://tinypic.com/r/21exgdj/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:19 pm
19-Braemar-how sad- 1960 http://tinypic.com/r/155qrdz/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:19 pm
20-D of E 1960 http://tinypic.com/r/r8rrl1/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm
21-Prefects 1960-61 http://tinypic.com/r/2r2urkh/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm
22-1960-61 http://tinypic.com/r/sfzf9i/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm
23-1960-61-2nd XV-G+S http://tinypic.com/r/2v9svg7/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:20 pm
24-Prefects 1961-62 http://tinypic.com/r/20j2teb/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:21 pm
25-Squash-Colts 1962 http://tinypic.com/r/2jezp08/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:21 pm
26-Chess-Speech Day 1962 http://tinypic.com/r/2zsrymq/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:22 pm
27-G + S 1961-62 http://tinypic.com/r/24e1i5w/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:22 pm
28-Prefects 1963-64 http://tinypic.com/r/ayvl1c/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:23 pm
29-ThomasMore-Mikado 1964 http://tinypic.com/r/28vcbrp/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:23 pm
30-1st XV 1964 http://tinypic.com/r/2iqn0o0/5
May 29, 2009 at 3:25 pm
31-Rugby- Devonia 1964 http://tinypic.com/r/t0n6rp/5
That’s it-there must be a better way-it all adds up to a 3MB attachment-still I tried
May 31, 2009 at 10:36 am
more!!!
32-Panamora-1-1963 http://tinypic.com/r/i2t4k4/5
May 31, 2009 at 10:37 am
33-Panamora-2-1963 http://tinypic.com/r/dqj3ew/5
May 31, 2009 at 10:37 am
34-panamora-3-1963 http://tinypic.com/r/2ni8ns1/5
May 31, 2009 at 10:38 am
35-Panamora-4-1963 http://tinypic.com/r/s3j7v5/5
May 31, 2009 at 10:38 am
36-Panamora-5-1963 http://tinypic.com/r/aca001/5
June 3, 2009 at 1:06 pm
quiet out there !!
June 3, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Hello Dave,how about this , if you look at Hollyfield Road School photos on friends reunited you will see that they carried on the Gilbert and Sullivan tradition when they moved, I remember going to see the headmsters wife in the Merry Widow and the Mikado so that’s probably why.
I noticed Alan Duff in one of your pics, he was in my class at Bonnerhill juniors, and I think he may have been the school cricket captain that I bowled out one day! Anyone know what happened to him? I also think David Cossell went to your school? I left Bonnerhill in 1958.
June 3, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Hi Ros! You a welcome sight -I thought my plethora of pictures might have blown the site in view of the earlier threats of being “moderated” -seems all is well!
June 3, 2009 at 4:13 pm
I have been talking to a chap called Stewart Davies who helps run the ” Braemar Club”. He tells me that Alan Bolt, now 90 years old, visited the Cobham Rugby club recently.
June 3, 2009 at 4:27 pm
this does not seem to work -try again
2-1957 Seven-a-Side
http://tinypic.com/r/2e33k46/5
June 3, 2009 at 4:28 pm
phew!!
Advise me if any more don’t work
June 7, 2009 at 10:08 am
hello Dave, it looks as if everyone has left the country, will you turn the lights out or shall I?
June 7, 2009 at 1:07 pm
It must be the shock of those photos-I’m glad you’re there Ros -I was beginning to think that I had blown the site up or something-you confirm I didn’t
June 8, 2009 at 6:43 am
Hi Dave – sorry for the silence but have been surprisingly busy lately. By the way, what happens when you are ‘moderated’?
Actually saw our famous SCGS Lib Dem parliamentarian, Andrew Stunnell on Sky the other day. Seemed totally dwarfed by a rather aggressive Labour MP, and had little to say at all – just as I remember him at school. (sorry Andrew if you ever read this blog. On a lighter note do you remember those famous cross country runs at Hook, in freezing weather, when we used to always come in last, usually with Colin Bridge and Hedley Stovold?).
June 8, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Dave, thanks for all those pictures, they certainly brought back a raft of memories after almost 50 years. Braemar and Aysgarth were lovely buildings to be taught in, pretty draughty and cramped, but soooooo interesting. Remember the narrow back stairs in Aysgarth? The old servants’ staircase I presume. I certainly remember the old G&S operettas, I appeared in one every year I was at SCGS, save for the year I missed the Mikado (‘55 I think). Never progressed beyond a very mediocre chorus presence. I remember that during rehearsals one year Barton was playing the piano, but then Doig suddenly appeared and decided he wanted to take over, sitting himself at the second piano in the school hall: however Barton was not one to be intimidated by a mere head, and continued to play without interruption. The duet, in very poor unison, continued for some considerable time, to everyone else’s amusement or embarrassment (depending on viewpoint!). Does anyone remember the House dramas, very late fifties as I recall. Villiers production was Two Gentlemen of Soho, I was landed with the part of Inspector, it was so long that nobody else was keen. Very happy memories of Bert Forward, Jock Lonsdale and poor tormented Sid Capper (who taught Russian at Epsom evening classes). Gus I never found as masochistic as some others have recalled, a very troubled man as a result of several years in a Jap POW camp I think. A message for David Goodyear, if you are still watching: I seem to recall you worked in the secretary’s office before you went off to uni, I spent a couple of months on front door duty around the same time after I had completed my January resits for some A level exams, since I could not actually leave the school until the end of that term. I think the powers that be felt I would be less disruptive there than remaining in class. Cliff Harrison
June 8, 2009 at 8:57 pm
One further event has just come to mind – did anyone else go on the trip to Rochefort in around 1956, it was an educational exchange with “eleves” (sorry, no accents on my keyboard) from the Lycee Pierre Loti, with whom a number of Lower IV year pupils had been corresponding. I remember the trip out to the (?) Ile d’Oleron to sample oysters, and to a local USAAF airfield to watch engine tests on piston and jet engines.
June 9, 2009 at 11:27 am
Hi Cliff , yes I was on that trip to Rochefort-sur-mer in april 1956. I think Henson, Neville Unwin, and Johnson were on that trip also and we all had our photo taken with Fred Fernihough under the Eiffel tower. I stayed with the assistant Head master Ms Dauriac et famille not far from the famous transbordeur bridge. I recall that a reception was held at the town hall where I accepted a glass of celebratory champagne and suddenly the world started spinning as I was introduced to the wonders of alcohol. I also remember the trip to the oyster beds and regurgitating a raw oyster, disgusting. The airfield was probably French as I remember them proudly showing us the first French jet fighter the ‘Ouragan’. Other highlights for me were a trip down to Bordeaux with all the family in their beat up old 2CV when the engine expired and they simply bolted in a ‘recon’ within a few hours, the overnight train to Paris crammed with USAAF servicemen and seeing for my first time a colour television demonstration in the window of a Paris dept store. Cant recall if it did my French any good but highly enjoyable. Also recall we went to Oxford by train that ¥ear, any one recall?
June 9, 2009 at 11:42 am
Forgot to mention that if anyone on that trip wants to relive that visit the old french film ‘Les jeunes filles de Rochefort’ is occasionally served up on TV showing the town and surrounding areas and crumpet in 1956!
June 9, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Woops sorry, for 1956 read 1967. Just found the trailer on Youtube.
June 10, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Hi Pete,
I remember a trip by train to Oxford and even had some photos to prove it, but don’t remember you. How was it organised – by year or by some other complicated formula. also remember a staggeringly boring steam train (?) trip to Salisbury, Old Sarum and Stonehenge. Curious thing is, I don’t recall any masters accompanying us, though I am sure they were there aplenty.
Anyone out there remember the ACF summer camps with Hillier and Lefevre, in exotic hotspots like Gosport, and the Army Drill Hall in Farnham
(last minute venue change because of the Suez War).
Finally a somewhat isoteric memory – some time in the Lower 6th ( 1959?) we had an exchange teacher from Winchester College for a term, at the end of which, we went for a day in Winchester College – wow – so much for history and priviledge. Probably an experiment never repeated by Surrey County Council.
June 10, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Peter. Yes, I remember the guy from Winchester, I seem to recall he was a very agreeable disposition, and wore ankle-high leather boots (rather than shoes) which was certainly a novelty in those days. Cliff
June 11, 2009 at 11:28 am
I was always told to look up to a public school teacher so probably never saw his stylish boots!
The name J.E.Mollison springs to mind – was that the guy?
June 11, 2009 at 12:45 pm
Peter/Cliff -I rember the name Mollison -tall guy fairish hair-sports jacket -or am I wandering?
Peter -as an unsophisticated 12 ywar old I thoroughly enjoyed the trip to Stonehenge .Salisbury and Old Sarum.
In those days you could walk all round the stones,touch them , sit on them. In about 1965 on a camping trip with a mate-big Mick Smith from Hollyfield Road, we cooked our supper in the /stonehenge car park and when everyone had gone about 7..30 -STEPPED!! over the fence and wandered around a totally empty Stonehenge -can’t do that now. On the same trip we went to Old Sarum and as it was closed assaulted it from the ditches and wandered round it . I remember being well impressed with Old Sarum even as a 12 yr old.
While in Salsbury Cathedral Tony Moss caught a mouse in the Cloisters. Somewhere along the way we bought water pistols which after soaking people on railway stations were rapidly confiscated 1 Ken bidmead appeared in our compartment with a pistol in each hand – my cry of “Biddy the Kid ” went unpunished.
Up until that time I had only been to Hayling island -day trips -Tower of London and Hampton Court. Foreign travel and foreigners were beyond my ken -I remember we used to joke that wogs began north of the Thames and South of the bypass and in deed my world was bounded b those visible borders-ain’t times changed.
There was also a trip to Stratford upon Avon-memory flash -Bert used to collect themoney in weekly instalments in that classroom just inside the backdoor of Albery house-Main school-wash rooms were just across the corridor- next classroom along the corridor was junior science lab- then up the stairs to Holy Joes drawing office -the staffroom was up there somwhere.
June 11, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Did someone mention a connection beween SCGS and Public schools? It was probably not well known but in 1955/6 several third formers were selected to sit the open scholarship exam for entrance to Charterhouse School. I was one of the third-formers selected and everything went OK until I was eliminated at the penultimate stage. The third-former who won the scholarship was Colin Wilcox. His other claim to fame was that he was the ” Bisto Kid”. He was contracted by his parents to a city advertising agency and his face appeared in magazines and on hoardings everywhere. His whiter than white image even appeared on a 20 foot high PERSIL advertisement hoarding on the railway embankment just outside of Surbiton Station, (the shirt didn’t stay white for long). I recently watched an Antiques Roadshow on TV when a member of the public entered carrying a 1950s Hornby-Dublo train set in a box. The Roadshow specialist explained that maximum value lay in the state of the packaging and held up the box. There on the lid was a picture of our Colin , frozen in time, holding a model engine, an advertising icon in his own lifetime. So come on Colin if you are out there tell us what a public school education did for you.
June 19, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Is there anybody out there who is reading these pages who went to SCGS in the late 60s? I was a pupil there from 1965-1972 and made the move from St. Marks Hill to Thames Ditton during my first term. My arrival at the school also coincided with the arrival of a new Headmaster named Mr. Eric Waller who was to eventually oversee the transformation of the school to a sixth form college named Esher Collge. I have only good memories of my time at SCGS where I studied a wide curriculum and gained 11 ‘O’ levels and 3 ‘A’ levels before gaining a place at Southampton Univesity where I read Physiology and Biochemistry and eventually a PhD in Neuropharmacology. I was also an avid sports player throughout my seven years, and eventually a regular member of the 1st cricket eleven and rugby fifteen. I am happy to compare notes if anyone wishes to correspond. I now live and work just outside of Boston in the United States where I moved in 1994.
June 20, 2009 at 2:41 am
Thanks to whomever got this website up and running, what memories.
Having dug through my old photos, the ones I was looking for (mainly slides) remain elusive. The seven I did locate are not great – mainly from contact sheets! However they have had some work and are on my website (rogerhusband.com)under SCGS. A password would have been a good idea – we couldn’t have anyone from Tiffin’s or Kingston Grammar getting access -but it didn’t work. This is PC based and I have mainly Macs where things do usually work but even then not first time. Anyway Doig’s facial expression assured me so long ago that my horizon’s were limited if I couldn’t even ring a bell on time…
Does anyone remember when that exchange teacher from Winchester College passed an art book around the class, I think it was in Asgarth?
When he got it back there were a number of additions to the drawings, mustaches etc. He told us what a despicable bunch we were (guess he was right)
Yes, I remember D.E.M. Hall. You went out on a limb for me once Dave. I was sick one day (not unusual), shouldn’t have come to school. Only declared my condition during a French test (that I had probably not revised for) and you testified to Fernehough that I had been ailing earlier.
Then there was Hall D.J. We mercilessly tormented poor Mr.Hunt. Whenever he turned to write on the board we started stamping feet, then stopped when he turned round. One time a single shoe contact continued and he frantically ran around the classroom to see who the culprit was.
David’s feet were conspicuously up in the air and he was banging his football boots behind him. Funny the things you remember.
Enough of my rambling, I must get back to my task, I was instructed to remodel the kitchen and the ceiling is presently supported on temporary jacks.
Anyone coming to the Winter Olympics here in Vancouver next year?
June 20, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Great Roger! I thought I was doing well to have put photos on to scanner and then on to web -you would have made a better job.
Iimmediately recognised Mick Chandler in the first photo -Burns reminded me of Ricky Mills in my year -the unknown was Derek Jones 1957-62? I think Derek went to Australia-as did Mick.
Yes funny things-one poor new teacher during his first chemistry lesson (he also taught maths and was Eddy Pearces brother in law or cousin in law) finiished up enlarging his writing on the board to about nine inches high. We also had great fun mispronouncing our surnames- Idon’t think he spoke to us again! Poor Mr Mollison’s artbook you bunch of barbarians!!
Keith ! Any idea what happend to any of the teachers of your era -mine was 1956-64
June 24, 2009 at 4:32 am
Dear Old Surbs of the 50s & early 60s !
Just discovered the reunion-initiative and delighted. I would be glad to hear from old mates on b.hewson@gmx.at. Now retired and living healthy and happy in Austria next to the last alp in the Alps.
Baz Hewson
PS: Animo et fide pergite (Lion of St. Mark)
June 25, 2009 at 8:55 am
In an effort to see if anyone is awake out there, here’s another memory. So far, Geography teacher Jim Bath gets one fleeting mention by Dave, early on.
Surely someone remembers the large wide Board Ruler he used to flourish, and which he called
“Clicky-Bar”. Always found him a somewhat menacing character – all smiles on the outside, but a tank commander’s mentality lurking just below the surface.
June 25, 2009 at 12:42 pm
yes I’m awake -not easy to sleep with hay fever -it’s that time of year again.
Jim Bath never taught me so I never saw him in panzer hunting mode -funnily enough I had an architecture lecturer called Jim Bath at Brixton School of Building.
I’ve just been talking to Peter Newlands of the Braemar Club 01296-730516-he has alist of club members -70 or so -might be of interest to some of you-Ian Calori is amember-Len Eggesston, Roly Herbert, Dave Hughe, Courtney brothers.
June 25, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Peter. Just for the record, my memory of Mr Bath was as my form teacher in the sixth form, and also as Economics teacher. As you say, not to be totally trusted, but I got on fairly well. Has anyone any memories of the ancient groundsman at Hook, Farr seems to be the name that comes to mind. And Pete, my everlasting memory of the Rochefort trip was of Fred Fernihough sleeping full length on one railway carriage seat, and all us kids having to make the best we could of what room was left. The train heating was on full, and it really was the most uncomfortable night I had ever spent. The train kept stopping in the middle of various shunting yards all the way down from Paris. Does anyone still keep in touch with anyone from Rochefort, I’ve tried to trace my old penfriend but without success.
June 25, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Cliff I thought the groundsman at Hook was Mr Jolly.
The school gardner was a fellow called Chris–he was a pal of John Woods-1956-1961/2.
June 26, 2009 at 6:12 am
Now this is getting serious. Way back in April, I smugly asked the question about the name of the groundsman at Hook, completely sure that he was called Farr.
Dave came back like a shot with “Jolly’. I didn’t challenge you at the time Dave, but now Cliff also recalls a Farr. Strangely both names are familiar but can anyone provide the definite answer
June 26, 2009 at 9:37 am
There may be a mention of the groundsman in the “surbitonian”- and we three can’t be the only ones with an opinion-open to the floor!!!!
now tipping with rain -silver lining is it will relieve my hayfever!
June 26, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Peter, can’t say for definite but as I remember it the guys name was Jollie. Cliff, just found an old diary which records that the exchange French teacher who accompanied us as far as Paris was monsieur Pouvre. My diary records that on visiting the local Rochefort art gallery our guide waved towards their most prized masterpiece, a wrestling mass of ‘naked ladeez’, whereupon Hendriksen detached himself from our group, wandered up to the painting and proceeded to examine the quality of the brushwork from a distance of 6 inches through his thick glasses. TEE HEE!. As far as locating my old pen friend Claude, I tried to contact him on behalf of our 13 year old next door neighbour Moira who had developed a crush on him and wanted to contact him urgently but he never replied. He did however leave me his copy of ‘Light and Shade’ a photographic study by Harrison Marks purloined from the shop at the bottom of St Marks Hill!
June 26, 2009 at 2:59 pm
A while ago somebody wondered where the SCGS records might be, so I got in touch with the Local History Room in Kingston and they only havea photocopy of the book “The First Twenty-One Years,Surbito County Grammar School”. After phoning the Esher College and Surrey County Council, I got back to the History Room and spoke to Jill Lamb the Archivist who said that theschools are not giving the log books etc. to them which is very upsetting,so perhaps you had better bequethe anything you have to them in your wills! I told her about this blog and she said she will look at it and let us know if anything else turns up. I just wondered if Kevin Davis would be interested in joining the search? I wonder if there is anything in an attic at Hollyfield, or if Mr Doig had them!
June 26, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Well done Ros ! What does Jill Lamb mean about log books? -yes I got the “First twenty one Years “-Igot my copy from Surrey Archives but no further joy!
June 26, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Hello Dave , the school log books that I have looked at in Suffolk are mostly Victorian and they contained information about attendance, misdemeanours and punishments and a diary of the school year, they also state when a child started school and their address and sometimes when they leave it says who they went on to work for etc. I don’t know if they carried this on into the 20th century?
June 26, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Ros -What reaction did you get from Esher College?
When did school logs start?
June 26, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Definitely Mr.Jolly.
June 26, 2009 at 11:18 pm
ok Richard 3-2 to us !!-which were your years -a little ahead of me I think- i was ayear below Dave Ashwell -I sometimes email him
June 27, 2009 at 8:24 am
I bow to the majority – Jolly it is.
Still have this strong image of a Mr. Farr mowing pitches. Could he perhaps have been groundsman at the Old Surbs ground in Cobham?
B the way Dave – anything of interest in Bert Forward’s memoirs?
June 27, 2009 at 8:44 am
Good morning Dave,the logbooks probably started around 1870 when the national system of education came in which was prompted by Forsters education act, although there are records before that from church schools charity schools and dame schools etc. I do,nt think Esher College were very interested they just said that they don’t keep any records after seven years, but it might be worth finding out if they have a history department to try and get them interested. I wonder if the rugby club at Cobham could help as they seem to be interested in the school history?
June 28, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Dave I was at SCGS 1954-1962.3 yrs in 6 th form,I was a late developer.Finally was awarded a a book onprize day 1962 (held in the grounds in the summer,unusually)I still have no ides why I acheived this honour,but Dave Ashwell told me that he overheard some masters sying that I had been at the school for so long that I deserved something.Ros when you mentioned Bonner Hill my 66 year old heart started racing,the girls at that school always seemed so good looking,and a little racy.
June 28, 2009 at 6:07 pm
well Richard I think you will have to ask Keith(Spud) the answer to that one!
June 29, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Peter. Don’t throw in the towel just yet, I think you were the year ahead of me. I started in 1954, and finally left in 1962 after an extra half year in the sixth form, just to get a few qualifications! I think Farr was groundsman at Hook until perhaps 1956 or perhaps a little later, he was pretty ancient by then, a short guy who I’m sure had a bad limp or some other peculiarity when walking. (Incidentally I hadn’t noticed his name mentioned in the earlier posting, so it did come fresh to my mind). Perhaps Jollie was the next one in line. And Pete, thanks for the extra Rochefort memories, I was standing next to Hendrikson at the reception at the town hall, and he was far keener on eating and drinking all the way through the French national anthem. Was there something called the Gladys Dare School of Dancing nearby, just at the top of the road that led to the back footpath to Surbiton Station? I recall the few weeks at the height of the summer each year when we would be allowed to use the gardens and grounds behind the main building over lunchtime, in the scorching heat the grass was so much nicer than the tarmac and concrete of the playground areas.
June 30, 2009 at 10:11 am
Thanks for the life-line Cliff. I’d hate to have been wrong. Your explanation makes sense – the names Farr and Jolly are inexpicably linked in my mind, with Hook.
It really makes us seem old, when we fondly remember long hot summers.
June 30, 2009 at 10:24 am
Yes Cliff the Gladys Dare School of Dancing was in Ewell Road, it was a bit posh for us, we went to Kay Stevens in Kingston and later in Hook community centre when I was 16,we wore black leotards with little frilly skirts then(that one is for you Richard)! The path to Surbiton Station is called South Terrace,I can remember pushing my son down there in 1971 ish.
June 30, 2009 at 11:43 am
If anyone is interested you can download Google earth street view free and take a virtual drive around all your old haunts in Surbiton etc, although it should come with a government health warning when you see what they have done to some places! Ewell Road hasn’t changed much though. Once you have street view go to Google Maps and the world is your oyster as they say.My great grandparents used to live in Surbiton Terrace,which was down the side of the Waggon and Horses pub opposite the Assembly Rooms in Surbiton Hill Road, but that has gone completely, does anyone know if the pub is still there?
June 30, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Ros -you took the words out of my mouth- however and paricularly for Cliff -google the old school grounds with trepidation –I nearly wept!!
Ros remember that chip shop in a narrow sideroad between Ewell Road and Alpha Road-run I think by an Irish lady called Mrs Mulvighill?
June 30, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I have a feeling that the afore mentioned Colin Wilcox went to Gladys Dare.Hence his career as th Bisto Boy.Ros I grew up in Hook ah the memories.I have been watching tennis all week,from Wimbledon,I get horrbly home sick for our little corner of North East Surrey at this time of the year.When growing up the weather always seemed so good at the end of June,the evenings were long,you could here the siren song of Surbiton Lagoon,or the Upper Deck ,just by Hampton Court Lock.The only problem was –end of year exams,O levels,A levels.Who could care about studying?
June 30, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Sorry Dave I don’t remember the fish and chip shop although Keith might,I am sorry to tell you that Alpha road is no more although I do remember a shop down there that was run by a couple of, sorry this is not politically correct,midgets,they used to stand on a wooden box to serve you. I think they pulled it down because it had a bad reputation and it was a blot on the landscape! It is now called Howard Road and they filled it with social housing and sheltered flats for the elderly, and my poor old Mum ended her days there after the council took away three bedroom houses from people who were living on their own in the late seventies.I am sorry Richard but I am not a tennis fan but my husband loves it but I will walk down memory lane with you if you like, I will be 16 after GCEs, how old will you be ?As we are in the middle of a heatwave shall we go to the Lagoon?
July 1, 2009 at 8:26 am
Alpha road ran from Berrylands parallel to Ewell road. there thrre cul de sacs Smith Howard and Britannia roads coming of Alpha road to toward King Charles road. There were a number of narrow roads leading to Ewell road from Alpha road-the chip shop was in one of these. I remember the little sweet shop run by the midgets -they had runways about 2ft 6 inches above the floor to pu t them at our height. About 1959 one of the locals won £1200 on a quiz show -alot of money in those days and in that area which was a bit rough.
July 1, 2009 at 10:18 am
According to my 1960 map of Kingston and District the three roads leading from Alpha to Ewell roads were Shalston Villas, Richmond Grove and South Place, and then there was Browns Road that went right through to King Charles Road. You must have lived close by to know the area so well,or were you slumming? Did you go to the Fishponds, my mum loved it there, and we also used to go to Claremont gardens and paddle in the pool. I was the youngest, after dad came home from the war, so mum had more time to do things with me while the others were at school.
July 1, 2009 at 11:19 am
Yes Ros-bang on -Smith and Howard roads were parallel to Browns road. My friend Alan Kemp lived in 37 Berry lands – so I spent a lot of time round there. and school was close by. I remember going to Claremont paddling pol when i was very little -on the 602 or 603- which were the buses I later used to get to school. Never went to fish ponds- Oakhill woods yes!
July 1, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I don’t know Oakhill woods Dave where is it?Were the 602 and 603 trolley buses? Did you ever discover The Sanctuary it was opposite Shalston Villas in Ewell Road I think it is still signposted it is absolutely beautiful there we used to go when I was in the art group at number 35 Ewell road it was a great place to sketch and generally get away from it all,like an oasis of calm. By the way 35 is still there looking very smart now perhaps it should have a blue plaque as Eric Clapton went there!The fishponds is next to Hollyfield Road by the way.
July 1, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I don’t know Oakhill woods Dave where is it?Were the 602 and 603 trolley buses? Did you ever discover The Sanctuary it was opposite Shalston Villas in Ewell Road I think it is still signposted it is absolutely beautiful there we used to go when I was in the art group at number 35 Ewell road it was a great place to sketch and generally get away from it all,like an oasis of calm. By the way 35 is still there looking very smart now perhaps it should have a blue plaque as Eric Clapton went there!The fishponds is next to Hollyfield Road by the way.
July 1, 2009 at 6:58 pm
whoops! I don’t know how that happened.
July 2, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Ros- 602 and 603 were indeed trolley buses.
Oakhill woods -google Oakhill Grove Surbiton Surrey.
July 2, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Well fancy that Dave, I will just remember it as it was then I won’t be disappointed!Both my Grans lived in Tolworth so we used to go to Surbiton on the 65 and then get on the trolley opposite the Odeon and get off at the Red Lion..
July 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Bernard Kanis
-Surbiton County Grammar School —- 1957-1964?
————————————————————————————————————————————–
KANIS Bernard (Edinburgh / Tranent) Peacefully, in Edinburgh Royal Infirmary, on January 30, 2009, Bernard, aged 63, loving father of Ivan, Stefan, Sonja, Django and Margot and their families. Funeral service to be held in Warriston Crematorium Cloister Chapel, on Monday, February 16, at 11.30 am, to which all family and friends are welcome.
————————————————————————————————————————————–
Bernie -a very nice guy – I am sure that all “Old Surbs” will join in expressing their sympathy to Bernie’s family-He will sadly missed by all who knew him.
July 9, 2009 at 2:41 pm
As we all contemplate our mortality,and this is the third death recorded inthis blog.How many others are there from the ranks of our contemporaries?Two thoughts.1)as team doctor may iremind you all to keep exercising,check your cholesterol levels ,and gentlemen have your PSA level checked,ladies have annual mammograms and cervical smears.2) Bernie Kanis and I overlapped at Edinburgh,he was a dental student.We would bump into each other fairly frequently,he always had asmile on his face and thoroughly enjoyed his life.His brother John,attended Medical school at Ednburgh,subsequently became Professor of Medicine at Oxford.There are alot of Old Surbs out there who have quietly done well in their chosen professions.
July 9, 2009 at 8:39 pm
I second that Richard, and I would like to add don’t smoke! My husband had a heart attack at the age of 58,he gave up smoking immediately but the following year had a mental breakdown and I am now his carer, so if you can’t do it for yourself do it for your loved ones.
July 9, 2009 at 10:07 pm
yours truly is trying to hold back the ravages of time -I haven’t eaten anything I like for three weeks -still I hope to be able to get into my suit eventually!-
Yeah Richard and Ros you are both right
July 10, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Eating healthily is not about punishing yourself and eating tasteless food Dave,there is so much lovely fruit and veg about this time of year, stir fries are brilliant, just think of your 10″ plate as a clock face,1to 6 is veg7 to 9 is meat, fish etc ,10 to 12 rice pasta couscous etc. Here is my recipe for healthy fish and chips,any white fish, dip it in beaten egg and fresh breadcrumbs,5or6 big fat oven chips or homemade wedges,and any type of peas you like including mushy ones! Bake the fish and chips in the oven together until golden brown, go easy on the ketchup! At least be glad that you’re a man because you’re allowed more calories than a woman!
July 11, 2009 at 11:15 am
Thanks Ros-not among my favourite tipples! -the great thing about Surbiton County was school dinners which to me meant no one breathing down my neck making me eat those disgusting 1950s vegetables. in the fifth year we could go in to Surbiton in the lunch hour -which meant steak pie chips (and beans for the pluted bloatocrats who could afford the extra 6d) + tea for 1/9d in a cafe called( I think) George Henrys situated in St James road Round the back of Surbiton Odeon( now a Waitrose I think). One of the main attractions apart from the freedom and the juke box was the excitment of wondering what you would find in your steak pie -stone , rusty nail , paper clip ,unidentified bone ,fubaprite(geological term), rubber band etc. On one occasion Bert Forward caused panic by arriving on an emergency mission to roust out some kid.
No Ros it’s not that bad -I would still kill for a kitkat chunky or 6-but Iam being careful and sensible-I have eaten fairly my diet has not been all abuse.
Richard!- can you get a Full English Breakfast out there in the backwoods?
July 11, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Due to having frequent migraine’s from the age of 12,and the constant quest for a few pain free days I haven’t eaten chocolate apart from the odd white Belgian one, since i was a teenager,and over the years i have given up so many things that caused problems,but I have recently given up all sweeteners and sugar,and now I find that if I do taste anything sweet it is so sickly, perhaps this might work for you? You can really taste the natural sugars in things as well, it makes eating a whole new experience, almost s…!
July 11, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Well done Dave! I hope you derive as much, if not more benefit from the system as I have. I agree with Ros regarding really tasting natural sugars again. White sugar burns out your taste buds – equivalent to putting the old 5 star in a lawn mower! Stick with it bud.
July 11, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Ah the full English! That is atreat I defer to my visits to the U.K.But there is a real food culture in the Southern U.S.Shrimp and grits for breakfast is very hard to beat,especially shrimp you have caught yourself with a cast net the same morning.My wife ,however is adicted to Dave Ashwell’s famous “Green Drink”.Surbiton Odeon is indeed aWaitrose now,and thereare actually 3 or 4 decent restaurants in Surbiton.Constantly amazed by the variety and quality of food available now compared to those 1950’s vegetables.
July 11, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Shrimps for breakfast sounds nice Richard,but what exactly are grits? Glad to see the old Odeon has gone up in the world I think it was B &Q in the late 70s.I used to go to saturday morning pictures there and in the late 50s The Star ran a competition for each Odeon to have a childrens choir, which I joined and guess what Surbiton won!,We went for a meal in London,It might have been at the Dorchester,we were each presented with a certificate by J Arthur Rank and later that day appeared on the Wilfred Pickles Television Show!We used to rehearse in the Frank and Peggy Spencer Dance Studio in Victoria Road.
July 17, 2009 at 9:08 pm
I attended SCGS 1958 to 1965 (Villiers), surviving the experience without academic distinction but I subsequently prospered and am now retired in Alexandria, Virginia, USA.
Most of the existing contributors seem to have attended a little before or after me, and I have seen very few names of pupils that I recognize. The teachers are a different matter, though, and the memories came flooding back! I’d like to share some of my own impressions.
First, some more names:
Campbell – chemistry.
Carpenter – PE, not sure what else.
“Buddy” Holly – economics.
Sentence – english (honestly!)
“Bunny” Warren – physics.
There was also a bearded individual who had the nickname “Ahab”, but for the life of me I can’t remember his actual name.
I thoroughly concur with the opinions previously expressed concerning Dr Turner & Ted Hillier. Oddly enough there existed for some years a website dedicated to the former, posted by one of his friends, describing what a wonderful person he was. It now seems to have faded away. As for Hillier, my main concern was that he didn’t seem to be totally competent in his subject – I remember more than one occasion when the class was having trouble with a problem and he was unable to solve it himself. He would also sometimes light up a cigarette in class. Another of his quirks was that he had memorized the entire 4-figure log table!
Ken Bidmead was also notorious for his volcanic temperament in the classroom, but on one weekend I was persuaded to help him with some charity work and he couldn’t have been more pleasant throughout.
Another one we dreaded was “Polly” Parrot. He seemed to spend most of his class time screaming at us. Fortunately I had to endure him for only a couple of terms before he emigrated to Mauritius.
My memory of “Bernie” Shaw was that he was brilliant at his subject but totally incapable of controlling his classes. On one occasion there was so much uproar that Ted Hillier walked in and restored order by caning a number of the boys on the spot.
But enough of the negative. Many of the teaching staff were true gentlemen and while others had their eccentricities I’m sure that all were doing their best to educate and inspire their frequently recalcitrant charges. By the early sixties a significant number were nearing the end of their careers – there was copy of the first year’s school photograph (1927) hanging in the main building and Cocks and Capper were in it – and that led to the school being seriously understaffed by 1964
particularly in science subjects. There was only one physics teacher where previously there had been three.
You couldn’t ask for a finer teacher than Jack Skene, but he had an odd way of pursing his lips while he talked so that every time he pronounced an S he generated a whistling sound which many of the lads thought was hilarious, particularly when he used terms such as Stevenson’s screen!
Jock Lonsdale’s principal catch phrase as I remember it would be attached to the end of any warning he had issued; “….and that would be MOST UNFORTUNATE. For YOU!” He lived, as I did, in East Molesey and rode to school on an NSU moped that would frequently buzz past me as I cycled along Summer Road in the morning.
There has been discussion of Jolly the groundsman. He definitely was in place by 1958, and as has been mentioned he made some loose change on the side by selling us post-game fizzy drinks which he kept in a refrigerator in the pavilion. He was never seen after the fire so presumably he was held responsible for it.
It is worth remembering that the school performed much of its own printing work. There was a large printing press at the back of the Art Room and its operation was performed by the printing club under the stewardship of Mr Busby who instructed us in the mysteries of gallys, fonts, typesetting and other aspects of the craft that have now been rendered irrelevant by the computer.
Was anyone else aware of the school model railway? Another activity supervised by the multifunctional Mr Busby, it would be set up over three or four weekends per year when the art room tables would be rearranged and a vast amount of Hornby-Dublo 00 scale 3-rail equipment would appear from the depths of one of “Uncle Bill’s” cupboards and be assembled thereupon. When complete it completely filled the art room and featured three stations, a marshalling yard, a locomotive depot and around a dozen locomotives with appropriate rolling stock. He kept this as a semi-clandestine operation for around a dozen older boys as it was all his own personal property and he wanted it handled only by those that were sufficiently responsible.
As for news of former pupils, I have little to offer. At first I tried to stay in touch with a few friends but we all went off in different directions. I remember Tony Arbour spouting in school debates, and he subsequently served as a liberal studies lecturer at Kingston Polytechnic before his political career took off.
In 1965 I was accepted as a technical apprentice at the Hawker-Siddeley factory at Ham. There on the same program I encountered two ex-Surbitonians, Dave King and Barry Lewendon, neither of whom I’d really had much contact with at the school. Dave was appointed Apprentice of the Year in 1970 and much to my amazement I succeeded him in 1971. Dave stayed with Hawkers, Barry eventually went to the Machine Tool Research Institute in Derbyshire and I embarked on a rambling engineering career encompassing paint spraying plants, automatic valve control systems, electrical equipment for use in flammable atmospheres and finally domestic appliances.
That’s probably enough for now. If anyone out there recognizes my name, I’d be pleased to hear from them.
July 18, 2009 at 7:39 am
Welcome to our humble site Richard.
You were probably a lowly second former as I was entering 6th form, so fairly unlikely our paths crossed directly. However – some great memories.
Gus Hillier was as I recall, one of the last people to smoke using a cigarette holder, which served only to make him more threatening.
Its an interesting observation about the ageing teaching staff. It never really occurred to me that teachers actually got old and retired, like real people. Even more curious, apart from Ken Bidmead’s minor celebrity of a wife, and the fact that Jock Lonsdale produced a son who was also at SCGS, I guess I assumed that the staff were all confirmed batchelors ( Sorry, just remembered Slash Heymans showing us photos of his wife and himself astride a giant motorbike on a trip around Europe).
Didn’t Sentence have a curious way of walking ? I have a vision of him, in full gown, mincing along on tip-toe?
July 18, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Thanks for the welcome, Peter! I don’t recall Mr Sentence having any obvious peculiarities at all, otherwise the lads would certainly have picked up on them; he never even acquired a nickname. I remember him as one of the gentlemen who spoke to us as normal people, kept us interested, never needed to apply any discipline and consequently obtained excellent results.
I’m not even sure that you would have encountered him – he joined the school around 1961/2 to replace A. J. Hayward (another gentleman) on his retirement.
Another teacher name just dropped out of my memory banks – Staples (is anyone writing these down?) He also joined during the early sixties but I don’t remember much about him.
July 19, 2009 at 1:07 am
Was the guy with the cigarette holder Gus Hillier or his fellow uniformed Captain(?) Lefevre. I think they both taught maths and ran the army cadets.
July 19, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I do recall Hillier using a cigarette holder. Lefevre must have been before my time.
Now that I’ve got rolling on this, I keep thinking of other teachers. Fairly late in my time, I think maybe 1963/4, the school acquired a lady biology teacher by the name of Mrs. Russell. For the authorities to have assigned a lady to teach biology to a school full of sex-obsessed adolescent males was a reflection of the teacher supply situation at the time!
July 20, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Hmmmm! We have one Richard in Georgia and one in Virginia and we still don’t know what “grits” are!
Carpenter taught sports and biology ( his lecture on vd to me and my 14 year old mates still makes cringe –he probably thought he was still a young subaltern trying to keep his troops on the straight and narrow –still at least he spared us the pictures -we all swore undying perpetual abstinence!!!) –he also helped Gus with the cadets.
Iremember “Bunny” Warren berating us for being so useles and telling us that we would never survive in the world outside.
I thought we knew the contents of “Uncle Bill’s” cupboards-I never knew a thing about the train set.
The name Barry Lewendon is familiar-couldn’t put a face tho!
I met “Slash” Heymans ( how did he get that nickname -Idon’t remember him raising his voice !!) in 1966 in Venice where he was living.
Staples taught art -I don’t think he enjoyed it very much-His replacement was a bearded case straight out of art school -such enthusiam – a truly inspiring teacher -can’t remember his name -anyone doing art from sep 1963 should remember him -he had the sixth form calling him by his christian name.
I think both Hillier and Lefevre affected a cigarette holder.
I remember Mrs Russel-ithink she’s on the photo I posted -she rapidly became pregnant.
July 20, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Richard Cripps -in the summer of 1966 Iwas doing the washing up at Hawkers
July 20, 2009 at 6:29 pm
“Grits” is a kind of porridge made from corn meal. Better than it sounds.
July 20, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Does anyone remember the name of the teacher who was enraged by the pong of calcium carbide and ink? If you added calcium carbide powder to the ink in the inkwells (Braemar memory this) it produced a foaming mixture of acetylene gas and goodness knows what else. One of our number used to do this before a lesson started. On arrival this particular manic member of staff went up and down the rows of desks inhaling at each inkwell trying to find the culprit.It was wonderful entertainment and nobody ever seemed to get caught.Who was the acetylene inhaler? Did it happen in your class or was this unique to our group. Richard, you were in the same class as me . Do you remember? Was it Wilf Sing or Keats or……?
July 20, 2009 at 9:04 pm
Thanks Richard I’ll look forward to a tasting- I think I have moved the other Richard to another state-not Georgia I think it’s South Carolina.
Anyway other Richard what is Dave Ashwell’s famous “Green Drink” ?
Ros -Frank and Peggy Spencer-I remember the names -brown notice board??
July 20, 2009 at 9:48 pm
How is the healthy eating going Dave?I did get fed up with waiting so I Googled Grits and yes I would like to know what the Green Drink is too, I expect Richard Day is busy healing the sick or out shrimping! Peggy Spencer now lives in Suffolk or Norfolk she is well known for training the Penge formation dancing team of Come Dancing fame. By the way my husband grows sweetcorn and if you cook it in fast boiling water for 5 minutes straight after you pick it, it is fantastic and very healthy if you don’t smother it in butter.I have been enjoying the input from the new recruits, almost makes me wish I was a boy!
July 21, 2009 at 11:10 am
Dave, I think Shlash (or Shlasher) got his knickname from the fact that his attempts to beat recalcitrant pupils were simply very mild taps on the head – always something of a surprise because he was a big beefy guy, who looked capable of decapitating you with a single blow.
He was also amazingly easy to be diverted from his subject. A simple question, usually about his traveling experiences was enough to get him to abandon the lesson entirely, in favour of something that really interested him.
Didn’t sport a very racy goatee beard at one stage?
July 21, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Digging into the long past, by surprise I come across this Surbiton County Grammar School memory box. In fact, I was seeking information via Google about the “venerable” Neville Holdaway (as one old boy remembers him), who taught me during my attendance at the school between 1942 and 1947.
Indeed, our silver-haired geography teacher was a brilliant communicator: I was fascinated to learn from him about such places as the lush Riverina district of Australia, a country that would otherwise have left me unexcited (but later I fortunately discovered its rewarding wines). I somehow learnt many years ago that Mr Holdaway had another life, never displayed before us in school. He was, in fact, a writer of detective stories, doubling up as a respected Marxist historian! See the attached evidence that I have just now at last garnered and would like to share:
***
N. A. Temple-Ellis (1894-??), pseudonym of N(eville) A(ldridge) Holdaway, was an English author, Marxist theorist and schoolmaster. “One of the ablest Marxist writers we possess” says George Orwell in The Road to Wigan Pier. In 1935 he was co-writer of the book Marxism together with, among others, GDH Cole.
In 1929 for The Inconsistent Villain the author was awarded first prize in Methuen’s Detective Story Competition, the judges being Bailey, HC, Knox, Ronald and Milne, AA. His series detectives are Montrose Arbuthnot and Inspector Wren.
Bibliography
The Inconsistent Villains (1929)
The Cauldron Bubbles (1930
The Man Who Was There (1930)
Quest (1931)
Six Lines (1932)
The Case in Hand (1933)
The Hollow Land (1934
Three Went In (1934)
Dead in No Time (1935)
Murder in the Ruins (1936)
Death of a Decent Fellow (1941)
***
Another discreet Marxist among our Surbiton teachers was art teacher Bill Busby, a sensitive and discreet man who seems to have been appreciated by all who sat at his feet. He never brought his politics into school, but when I discovered them I offered myself as an adolescent helper in the Kingston council elections of October or November 1945, in which he stood as Communist candidate. He got several hundred votes, but wasn’t elected. Nowadays, I campaign in Brighton for Green candidates who do in fact get elected. So, some progress there.
For the record, those of us who were at school during the Second World War must remember the assemblies that were from time to time preceded by a tribute by the headmaster to a former pupil killed at the front. Such occasions have not ended in our schools.
I remember, too, that we sixth-formers had in turn to give a reading, each morning for a week, from the Bible: I got permission to select my own texts, which were of anti-establishment flavour and taken from the New Testament. In journalism, I have delved into biblical texts from time to time ever since.
My close school friend of those years, Peter Pulzer, will no doubt have similar recall. Now Professor Emeritus of Government at the University of Oxford and an Emeritus Fellow of All Souls College, he is probably the most illustrious of those of us who went to the school at the top of St Mark’s Hill sixty-five years ago. Apart from his respected tomes on German-Jewish history, he deserves recognition for having led the successful opposition to Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher being granted an honorary degree of the university in 1985. The opposition, he said, was to express “our very great worry about the way in which educational policy and educational funding are going in this country”.
So our modest Surbiton school, ostensibly no revolutionary academy, was in one way or another a seedbed for enlightened thought in the later years of the twentieth century. Glad to have been a little part of the story, and greetings to anyone out there who was around at the same time.
July 21, 2009 at 6:14 pm
For the record, those of us who were at school during the Second World War must remember the assemblies that were from time to time preceded by a tribute by the headmaster to a former pupil killed at the front. Such occasions have not ended in our schools.
Re PeterAvis’s comment about acknowledging fallen pupils –I once suggested to my children’s primary school headmaster that the yearly school commemerationof Remembrance Day might be made more personal and relevant for the kids if they could wear any family service medals-fathers, grandfathers etc- I was told in no uncertain terms that such suggestion was not acceptable because it would be unfair on those whose fathers, grandfathers did not have medals. PC was more important than heroes and family history!!
My kids were at primary school 1997-2004-I have tried to explain to them and shown them Granddad’s medals and they have heard Grandma’s tales of the blitz.
While I am in soapbox mood- putting aside the rights and wrongs of the current war in Afghanistan (my paternal uncle was bombing them in 1927-I think he had a go at the Iraquis as well) I think it would be approrpriate if our media should give a greater profile than mere numbers to those soldiers of our allies who are being killed in the same war.
Yeah Slash had a very cavalier beard.
July 22, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Hi Dave.
I agree completely with your sentiments. Perhaps you should have explained to them that not all medals were awarded for Galantry, and that all WW2 servicemen were entitled to
( and most probably claimed) medals which simply acknowledged their presence in certain theatres of war, and as such are just as significant.
Whilst I am not a great approver of all things American, I do admire the way they treat adolecent performance at least. My eldest grandson is at the American School of Dubai. Whenever they have competitive sports or athlethic activities, they all get a medal, simply for having entered, and completing the event. No-one is singled out as being the winner. That’s my kind of reward system. Boy – I would have collected a shirt full of medals on that basis.
For Peter Avis – thanks for the insight into Neville Holdaway’s extra curricular activities – it explains a lot about his obsession with detail and perfection. In his final years, he was actually quite a bad tempered guy, and whilst not known for corporal punishment, had a nasty temper- not helped by the fact that in 3C, our Form Room was the Geography Room in Braemar, and he demanded incredible standards of tidyness !
Couple of names for you Peter, which may be after your time: Peter Ransom ( major Rugby player), Peter Marsh, both from my humble village of Oxshott, and Ian Irvine, who looked as if he might have been the role model for the hero in “The Fifth Form at St. Dominics”. All probably there towards the end of your time at SCGS.
Rumour also had it that Fernyhough was a pupil, and subsequently a teacher – was he around in your time?
By the way – given that winter 1947 was one of the
coldest on record, what was it like
July 22, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Hi Dave.
I agree completely with your sentiments. Perhaps you should have explained to them that not all medals were awarded for Galantry, and that all WW2 servicemen were entitled to (and most probably claimed) medals which simply acknowledged their presence in certain theatres of war, and as such are just as significant.
Whilst I am not a great approver of all things American, I do admire the way they treat adolecent performance at least. My eldest grandson is at the American School of Dubai. Whenever they have competitive sports or athlethic activities, they all get a medal, simply for having entered, and completing the event. No-one is singled out as being the winner. That’s my kind of reward system. Boy – I would have collected a shirt full of medals on that basis.
For Peter Avis – thanks for the insight into Neville Holdaway’s extra curricular activities – it explains a lot about his obsession with detail and perfection. In his final years, he was actually quite a bad tempered guy, and whilst not known for corporal punishment, had a nasty temper- not helped by the fact that in 3C, our Form Room was the Geography Room in Braemar, and he demanded incredible standards of tidyness !
Couple of names for you Peter, which may be after your time: Peter Ransom ( major Rugby player), Peter Marsh, both from my humble village of Oxshott, and Ian Irvine, who looked as if he might have been the role model for the hero in “The Fifth Form at St. Dominics”. All probably there towards the end of your time at SCGS.
Rumour also had it that Fernyhough was a pupil, and subsequently a teacher – was he around in your time?
By the way – given that winter 1947 was one of the
coldest on record, what was it likE
July 22, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Hi Dave,
Completely agree. Maybe you hould have told them than perfectly ordinary soldiers, never commended for gallantry were entitled to
campaign medals simply acknowledging that they were in a certain place at a certain time.
Personally I quite like the US system that refuses to acknowledge outright winners, and instead rewards everybody who takes part. My eldest grandson is at the American School of Dubai, and collects pockets-full of medals just for taking part in athletic and sporting events. Boy – I could have filled my shirt with such awards.
For Peter Avis: Thanks for the insight into Neville Holdaway’s extra curricular activities. It explains a lot about his obsession with detail. For the record, towards the end of his life, he became very bad-tempered, and unpredictable, not helped by the fact that as 3C, the Geography Room was our Form Room, and he took a fanatical pride in its tidyness.
Peter, a couple of names that may just be in your era:
Peter Ransom – Rugby star
Peter Marsh – not sure what he was at school, but later Unilever star
Ian Irvine – finally School Captain, but a possible role model for the hero of ” Fifth Form at St. Dominics”.
BTW Peter, given that 1947 was one of the UK’s coldest winters, what was life ike at the top of St. Mark’s Hill that winter?
July 22, 2009 at 9:57 pm
My father’s own war was less “exciting” than many-for some reason he got the Africa Star-closest he got to Africa was St Nazaire, western France from where he scuttled in June 1940 after dodging the advancing Hun-he escaped on June 17th, nearly three weeks after Dunkirk, –he was one of those who watched the “Lancastria” sink with the loss of 5000 lives. Still you don’t get medals for retreats and things which have “D” notices slapped on them. Manston Aerodrome during the Battle of Britain was apparently a bit hairy.
After that however I think that my mother living 200 yards from, and working in, the Hawker Aircraft factory in Canbury road Kingston (behind the Regal cinema) was in far greater danger for far longer-and war workers seem to get no recognition-just remember how long it was before war widows were allowed to march in the remembrance day parade.
Adolf even fired V2s at little baby me!! My kids being 16 and 17 I can look round at a school function and realise that I am the only one present who has been bombed by the Luftwaffe.
How many of us carefully wrote down our parents experiences of those six years? –I know I didn’t.
Peter if I find the photo of me in the winter of ‘47 i will show what it was like -did you ever have whale meat and powered egg?
July 22, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Tried to post a comment before – was denied – at SCGS 1960 to 1967 – I can debunk the urban myth that Eric Clapton is an Old Surb ! Should I continue?
July 22, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Go Ken, go! You could have a look at:
http://www.biggeststars.com/e/eric-clapton-biography.html – ?
July 23, 2009 at 11:25 am
Whale meat – yes, but in a pricy bar in Tokyo in the 70’s. Powdered Egg – yes, and those endless omelettes that were about all it was fit for.
Other wartime (and post war) treats included Virol, Ministry of Health thick Orange Juice concentrate, Cod Liver Oil, liquorice Imps, dried bananas, Spam, tapioca, condensed milk, home made dripping, tinned Jam from Australia or S.Africa, and Little Miss Muffit Junket. Probably all a lot more healthy than much of today’s fare.
July 23, 2009 at 11:53 am
Looked at all the old photos on this site and it brought back great memories – Arriving at the school that September day in 1960, aged 11, was awesome – coming from primary school as top dog and then being at the bottom of the heap with all these grown men! that’s what it seemed like anyway.
But to start with I feel compelled to debunk Eric Clapton before we Old Surbs are accused of plagiarism. In EC’s autobiography (2007) he went from local school to Hollyfield school (surbiton) at age 13 which was about 1957 or 1958. He says he passed the 13+ exam to get to Hollyfield but I am sure Hollyfield was a secondary modern school – certainly SCGS took in 13+ exam successful candidates when I was there – I was 13 in 1962 and remember a handful of boys joining my year. I cannot see why Hollyfield should have been a 13+ exam destination in that case. EC continues that he passed A level art at age 16 (1960 or 1961) at Hollyfield which also housed the junior (feeder) dept of Kingston College of Art. He then joined KC of A central and dropped out shortly after to concetrate on music.
The myth about EC and SCGS arose in 70s when there was no internet to quash it in it’s infancy – it has continued (apart from EC autobiograph) and is now firmly planted in the internet (Wikipaedia and stars biogs)
The facts of the matter are :-
In the summer of 1966 SCGS moved to Thames Ditton (over the Summer holidays) In september 1966 or maybe a year later, Hollyfield School moved from Hollyfield Road (at bottom of hill in Ewell road near the King Charle’s Rd intersection) up to the vacated SCGS at St Marks’ hill.
Certainly, by 1966, Clapton was well on the way with his music but his old school had simply moved location after summer 1966. I recall in the 70s or 80s that Japanese coach tours were stopping at St Marks school to see EC’s old school but I dont know why SCGS was substituted as his alma mater – perhaps it suits EC not to debunk the myth himself but it is surprising that no Hollyfield school old boys/girls have reclaimed him.
So the early blog about EC sleeping in the stable block is not quite right. Hollyfield school was built in those post war prefabricated single story buildings like the govt buildings around the area (Hinchley Wood etc) But St Mark’s hill grounds had a stable block – as your face Allbury House front entrance (assembly hall to the left) the stable block was to the right side of Allbury separated by a small courtyard. I think the stable block was a form of sixth form common room – when the removal men came in Summer term of 1966 the stable block attic was cleared – an enormous pile of empty fag packets accumulated over 35 years!
So, I can’t see EC ever having set foot on St Mark’s hill site as a pupil – he may have visited his old school since it moved to St Mark’s Hill but that, I am afraid, is the extent of his connection with SCGS!
July 23, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Hello Ken, I was a Hollyfield pupil who passed her 13 plus and went into the art group! I have stated earlier that Eric was in the year above me and we spent most of our time in the studios at 35 Ewell road, next to the fire station,perhaps you might find my earlier musings of interest, although Hollyfield was a secondary modern school it was quite progressive where the arts were concerned and I was very lucky to be a part of that, not being particularly academic, but even with our reduced curriculum as we had 21 periods of art per week ,I did manage to leave at the age of 16 with3 o’levels, and then went on to college in London for 2 years.
July 23, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Dear Ros,
having discovered this website it took a while to go through all the threads but I have revisited your 9th May message where you mention EC – but you also seem to think EC came from SCGS to Hollyfield for the Art curriculum in that message which I regard as wrong. I did not mean to be disparaging about Hollyfield and the 13+ exam – It is now clear that Hollyfield had special status with its Art specialism. As I said in my previous long message, SCGS took in 13+ exam passers, in my year that would have been 1962. I passed my 11+ in 1960 at primary school in Kensington – my parents then moved to Kingston in June 1960 – my last few weeks at primary school involved bussing it to Hammersmith and then to High St Ken. Being from a different Education Area when I did my 11+ it meant that Kingston allocated me to SCGS – my mother had been gee-ed up to think I should have gone to Tiffin Boys but there was no argument – I would not have changed going to SCGS – I really enjoyed it and it fitted in with my poor original East End roots. Tiffin would have been too posh for me – the Old Tiffs website has an Oxbridge section. This demonstrates that they were regarded as the premier state grammar school in the area – Kingston grammar school, being independent and fee paying, would be top of the tree but limited access. SCGS was regarded as the true working class grammar school for the area – certainly by the time of my intake – In fact my intake year of 1960 included a sizeable number of 11+ near misses who got in after an interview with A J Doig and the pupils’ parents. At SCGS I was never beaten by Tiffins at Rugby – from Under 12’s to 1stXV – this was always a source of pride by the rugby masters who took my age group all the way through the seven years from 1960 – Fry was under 12’s – Harris Ide was 13’s – under 14’s was led by an Australian whose name I cant remember – Colts was Baz Hunt – 4thXV was Rupert Rose – 3rd Xv was another physics master Tudor his name was I think, 2nd XV was Mo Morris and Taff Davies was first XV. I believe immediate intakes below me carried on this success to a great extent and the Old Boys also had the upper hand over Old Tiffs – they have now discontinued fixtures – OTs languish in the lower leagues of Surrey while Cobham are at the giddy heights of London 1 – the last boxing day fixture between Old Surbs/Cobham and Old Tiffs was about 3 years ago – mismatch and dwindling player numbers at Old Tiffs put paid that fixture by mutual agreement.
July 23, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Having looked through all the threads again I can add some background to the Braemar Club. About 20 years ago Old Surbs were going through the doldrums as regards membership – Esher sixth form college was coed and rugby and cricket had almost disappeared (golf and soccer came into prominence) such that no new members joined the old Boys. Old Surbs had had a reprieve when Old Hinchleians folded and their 20 strong membership transferred to Old Surbs, we all knew them socially so they fitted in well – some of their better players had already joined to get better rugby. This was a bit of a false dawn so by 1980 the Old Boys decided to change to open format Cobham RFC – the cricket section continued for a few years under Old Surbs banner but they went the same way and have now folded (remnants have joined Effingham and leatherhead) In 1980 the rugby section started mini rugby in a very small way but now is oversubscribed – the Youth section is very successful (that would be the age group 11 to 18 which would be the same as the school in the old days) and the senior section is also riding high (London 1 on the margins of semi professional) The new clubhouse (replacing the 1963 clubhouse) is enormous and sumptuous and the car park on Sunday mornings (mini rugby) looks like Guy Salmon’s forecourt !! When I visit, once a year from Ireland, I have slight misgivings about the set up – a rich playground that I would not be able to access as a young person these days because of my schooling and background – So I regard my education at SCGS as invaluable – the 11+ and rugby took me in a better direction than I could have possibly hoped for. I have friends at Cobham who pay six grand a term (plus add ons)per child (Typically at Danes Court in Oxshott) just to get the same level of education I got at SCGS – believe me I have supervised their homework on visits. Anyway, back to Braemar club, As the old Boys were declining and morphing into an open club the older members drifted away and it took the suicide of Fanny Price to prompt some of the older members to set up the Braemar club to look out for and make welcome the true school Old Boys and stalwart non school members by invitation. Fanny price was found in his smoke filled car in his garage where he had a final look through his school and Old Boys memorabilia before slipping away. All very poignant.
July 23, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Well Ken I only said that Eric came from SCGS because that was what the old surbs were saying,I did not actually know because most of the people in the Art Group came from schools all over Surrey,there were very few who were already at Hollyfield.I also went out with a few boys from Tiffins and SCGS boys were much better!
July 23, 2009 at 5:44 pm
In ECs autobiography he says that the 11+ was traumatic – he and his fellow pupils were bussed to some big hall from his Ripley primary school and made to sit test papers all day. Born in 1945 that would have been 1956 I guess. So, he went on to St Bede’s secondary modern school in nearby Send village and took 13+ (in 1958) and went to Hollyfield. As you say, Hollyfield’s Art excellence attracted people from all over Surrey and so, I would surmise, EC must have passed 13+ to leave St Bede’s to go to Hollyfield; a choice influenced by a demonstrable aptitude and passion for Art.
It is ironic that by 1960 (my year of intake) SCGS were filling places with near miss 11+ ers; was that demographics? surely not in the baby boom era – perhaps primary education standards were going down by then ! EC does not mention SCGS at all! As I say, it’s all a blurring of Hollyfield’s move to St mark’s hill premises.
July 23, 2009 at 6:11 pm
I don’t know if it was true but I seem to remember something about the fact that more girls than boys were passing the 11 plus and when I took it the first half of the test was fine, but the second part was as far as I can remember, logic problems the like of which I had never seen in my life before. Now whether this was a ploy to weed out the girls or not I don’t know but I was 3rd in my class at the time and my eldest sister was at Tiffin Girls! That was in 1958.
July 23, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Dear Ros,
I think it came out recently when state papers were released under 30 year rule that boys had a lower pass mark for 11+ otherwise mostly girls would be eligible if you equated supply of places with demand. The educationlists’ thinking was that girls were more mature than boys at age 11. Modern day education jargon now demands that “failure” is not in the vocabulary now – it’s “delayed success”
July 23, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Well I never !As I was only 10 when I took it, does that make me extra mature! Ha Ha!And there I was thinking I was a failure!My sides are splitting now!!
July 23, 2009 at 7:54 pm
I don’t have a copy of Eric Clapton’s autobiography, but I did read some snatches from it in a bookshop. I saw a reference to “…walking to the arts annex on Surbiton Hill Road.” I don’t recall any other educational facility on that road. Did Hollyfield students use the SCGS art room for some of their classes? I never heard of that happening, but it would explain Eric’s presence in the building (or stables!)
July 23, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Richard I can honestly say that in the three years that I was in the art group we never went near your school in the daytime, but as I was going out with an old surb I did go there on the odd weekend, but that was nothing to do with art!Perhaps whoever wrote that didn’t realise that at the top of the hill it became Ewell Road but I can verify that we were constantly walking between the annexe and the Hollyfield Road site.
July 23, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Well – since my recent intervention on this blog I seem to have upset two of its main proponents – Dear Ros – your reaction to the 11+ when I was a boy the first day at infant school was the worst – no mammy but after a couple of days it was where I wanted to be. Then you went to be bottom of the heap in primay school, but you got through it only to become bottom of the pile in secondary school! third level education was a bit more liberal though , certainly in the 60s, although I think women had the better deal – they had access to all years whereas us male freshers were struggling to make an impression ( I went to Kent @ Canterbury) Anyway – the point I am trying to make is that nowadays it seems that all young people are being conned – ie leave Hatfield “University” with a media studies degree and 20k student debt and the poor student is completely unprepared – in fact it turns the current educational thinking on its head – “delayed failure” !!
July 23, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Dear Ros, I realsie I lost the thread in my last message – I think you must have had the best of the 60s – Eel Pie island etc – I was too young to experience the scene first hand but I now realise I was at one of the epicentres but did not appreciate things – SCGS was still locked into the 50s and War years
July 23, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Don’t worry about it Ken you didn’t upset me,. after all we extra mature people have got to stick together.I am off to bed now good night.
July 24, 2009 at 1:04 am
I’m sure that there was a Hollyfield annex along the Ewell Road-Chris Dreja of the Yardbirds was an arty fellow from Hollyfield Road.
Try this link
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hl=en&tab=wl
July 24, 2009 at 8:50 am
EC’s autobiography confirms what Ros says – The annexe along the Ewell Rd was Hollyfield’s facility not SCGS –
reference previous threads :-
Jock Lonsdale’s son went to SCGS – Gordon Lonsdale was in my intake year – 1960. I also heard that Fernyhough was pupil and teacher – I believe he played for the Old Surbs, as a proper old boy when the club was “closed” membership which would confirm his ex-pupil status.
July 24, 2009 at 10:19 am
Okay Dave ,how about this, Chris Dreja was on the electoral roll for Suffolk 2002 to 2006, in 1995 on April 8th the Yardbirds played at Colchester Leisure Centre including originals Chris Dreja and Jim McCarty. My best friend Dot who was in the art group too sent me the cutting, she also told me that Chris was making a good living photographing food for advertising and cookery books and magazines, quite interesting as his family ran a delicatessen in Victoria Road Surbiton.I will give her a ring later and see if she has an update.
July 24, 2009 at 10:48 am
Wartime memories, cold days, Mr Holdaway and other matters….
Yes, that was a rude winter in the early months of 1947. The school was closd for several weeks, as the heating system didn’t work. It impeded our preparation for the summer exams. There had been other impediments in the years before the end of the war : evacuating classes and continuing lessons in the air raid shelters when the alarm sounded for approaching doodle bugs (as long as you heard their croaky engines, you knew you were OK; when the engine cut out you waited for a bang in less than a minute).
And yes, we had whale meat, and powdered eggs, and digging for victory, and holidays at home (there was a gorgeous summer or two in the forties) and constant tuning-in to radio reports from the war fronts throughout the world.
Now, for the enigma of our teacher Mr Holdaway, who becomes more intriguing the more one researches into his life and career. Neville Aldridge Holdaway, who was writing detective stories from 1929 and Marxist philosophy in the 1930s – before diligently teaching geography at Surbiton in the 1940s and 1950s – must surely be the same Neville Aldridge Holdaway who was mentioned in despatches at the age of 26 in 1918. See this extract from the supplement to the London Gazette, 16 September, 1918:
Lt. Neville Aldridge Holdaway, Manch. R.
For conspicuous gallantry and devotion
to duty. When this officer observed that
the officer in charge of an important ad-
vanced post had become a casualty, he im-
mediately went up through a heavy barrage
and took command. He organised and con-
trolled the fire of the garrison with such
effect that the enemy began to waver, so
he promptly advanced, inflicting severe
casualties; but, finding them too numerous,
he withdrew, after ascertaining their dis-
positions. His courage and coolness
throughout the whole operations were very
marked.
When I met Neville Holdaway 25 years later, he was a silver-haired quietly-spoken gentleman wearing, I think, a “Ronnie Barker” brown cotton coat like a shopkeeper in a hardware store. He pinned up daily copies of “Soviet War News” on a board in the corridor. Nothing controversial about that at the time: “Uncle Joe” Stalin was our ally in the war against Hitler and his monstrous malefactions against his own people were unknown, hidden or forgiven…
Oh, and the Eric Clapton mystery: has anybody thought of asking the chap himself where exactly he went to school?
July 24, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Peter just mentioned Doodle Bugs,family legend has it that one fell on the sewage works in Marsh Lane Surbiton and my aunty was “powdering her nose” at the time and her rear end took the brunt of it!
July 24, 2009 at 6:47 pm
EC’s autobiography – early years section – he was dreading going to a grammar school either in Guildford or Woking so when he sat the 11 + he was not motivated. But a master at St Bede’s secondary school recognised his art talent and EC says he tried hard at 13+ and was successful, going on to Hollyfield.
I suppose that there is the outside possibility that EC initially went to SCGS for a very short while – thus giving credence to the stable block anecdote – and then was allowed to leave for Hollyfield where his art talents were appreciated, this all being done on the quiet which would have been the modus operandi at that time (no public expulsions) Certainly he admits to a lot of bunking off at Hollyfield as well (going to pubs and Bentalls to listen to records) and, in his book, is ashamed that he was thrown out of Kingston School of Art after 1 year (lack of portfolio) – His pride in getting A level Art at 16 seems to be the only celebration of his academic life. So, it is quite feasible to me that he would skip over anything to do with SCGS; much like anyone would do in their CV, where the time gap is easily covered. I don’t think EC would be inclined to amend his record now, though; A reliable eyewitness is needed!
On a similar vein I heard the story that the Kinks drummer, Mick Avory, went to SCGS – his wikipaedia entry shows him born Feb 1944 in East |Molesey which was certainly in SCGS catchment area or it was in my time (1960 intake)
July 25, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Well Ken all I can say is,as we had no luck in finding the SCGS records, perhaps they have the Hollyfield Road records in the Local History Room in Kingston, and they might say if E.C.started there in the Autumn term 1957 when he would have been 13 and a half,apart from that I cannot help,all I know is that he must have been in the art group in 61/62 beacause he became friends with Chris Dreja and Tony Topham who were in my class and were founder members of the Yardbirds.
July 25, 2009 at 2:03 pm
A few years back Peter Marsh (Old Surbs stalwart) gave me the membership archives which went from 1930 through to late 70s – The school would give him a list of names and addresses of leavers from the school so that Old Boys could be encouraged to join. I handed over the records when I moved to Ireland. I did look through them quite carefully out of curiosity and I am sure I would have noticed anything like EC of Ripley. When I next visit Cobham (probably October) I’ll try to get access to the records again.
July 25, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Ken re your last -Ishall ask the guys running the Braemar club about your very interesting point.
July 25, 2009 at 11:08 pm
Hi Ros … re the doodle bugs, I was a mere babe in a pram at the time but my Mum recalls one cutting out and heading straight for our house in Bond Road Tolworth one afternoon only to veer off at the vewry last minute and land 100 yards away at the corner of Douglas Road and Tolworth Park Road demolishing two houses. I was covered in glass from the blast but slept through the whole thing and thereby lived to hearby tell the tail!
Ken … this would have been my intake year at SCGS and I’m pretty sure that Mick was not in it.
July 26, 2009 at 10:19 am
Hello Malcolm, how very interesting, my dad’s mum lived in Tolworth Park Road ,Ellerton Road end at the time, and my other gran lived in Hamilton Avenue. I have a large photo of a party in Hamilton Avenue on V.E.night. At Christmas time all the family would gather and sing all the wartime songs into the wee small hours and all the memories would come flooding out,I would sit quietly in the corner and soak it all up like a sponge,happy days,there is just my brother and me left now.
July 26, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Malcolm -my protection against V2s was piece of hardboard over my cot! Seems to work!
July 26, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Barry Bucknel would have been very proud if he had thought of that one Dave,better than sitting under the dining table like my family!
July 26, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Saw a reference to the entry system at SCGS – I vaguely recall that if you got 3 entries then some form of awful punishment was meted out. After that did the slate get wiped clean or was it 3 entries per term? It was quite terrifying so I managed to keep below the radar. I suppose it was like yellow card then orange card then red one. I remember Rickard causing a constitutional crisis when he got two double entries in one day to go with his already 2 entry total. The danger was that he had single handedly devalued the whole system. Poor old Taff Davies (Coutts housemaster) had to cane Rickard publicly at House meeting; Taff was a nice man and not a sadist!
July 27, 2009 at 3:51 am
Rickard? That name rings a bell. Did he have red hair and glasses? If it was the boy I’m thinking about, he probably deserved it.
The system that I never understood was that by which the houses were graded annually. Once every year there was an announcement in assembly that such-and-such house was top house with so many hundred points. The only visible effect of this was that the order in which the houses were arranged for assembly was shuffled around. What the points were awarded for and who was counting them remained a mystery to me I would have been pleased to score some points for villiers if I had known how.
Now there follows a story which may be apocryphal. It was recounted to me shortly before I left. I can’t believe that it could have occurred while I was at the school as there would have been the most violent repercussions for all, involved or not. But like all the best stories, the teller insisted that it was gospel.
Bill Busby drove a Volkswagen Beetle which he habitually parked backed up to the front door of the school – the one through which no pupil was allowed to pass. One day a couple of prefects tied a rope to the back bumper and secured the other end to one of the pillars of the portico. What was supposed to happen was he would start to drive away and be brought to an unexpected stop. In practice, the bumper was yanked off. Presumably they weren’t studying engineering.
One of my classmates named Colin Wyver once claimed to have ridden his motorcycle around inside the assembly hall, but that was on a Saturday morning when he should have been putting up stage lighting and there was no authority figure within earshot. Apparently tyre marks were left to be remarked upon on Monday morning. Colin joined the RAF on leaving the school and subsequently made Squadron Leader.
The nastiest bit of vandalism I heard about was when someone peed into Jack Skene’s rain gauge, which seemed a rotten trick to play on such an admirable man. It wasn’t surprising that some teachers became rather testy with time.
July 27, 2009 at 6:23 am
Hi Ros … we were in No 58 one house down from the corner of Bond Road and Tolworth Park Road (opposite Thorogoods the builders yard); the Swans were next door in No 56. The rocket hit the semis on the corner of Douglas Road and Ravenscar Road opposite the Douglas Road Hall where we used to walk up the road fto rom Tolworth Infants/Junior school for lunch. The bombed site was derelick for several years, well into the 1950s and was a great source for pram wheels etc for building the obligatory carts etc, but you had to be quick off the mark to get the best pickings! Sadly just me and my sister left now too but my mum made it to 93 … hope I’ve got her genes!!
July 27, 2009 at 7:21 am
Why if Bill Busby was a closet leftie did he drive the biggest car -a very large black thing called a Railton, which was the one I seem to remember was attached to the portico not his Beetle -anyway it was a very unkind thing to do to a to one of the best people on the staff. I can think of other people who were far more deserving of such a fate.
July 27, 2009 at 10:39 am
good morning Malcolm ,either you get up early,or like most of the old Surbs you have gone abroad. I have come to the conclusion that is probably why we are in such a mess,come back”your country needs you”! My Gran, Mrs Dobson at that time lived at no. 16 Tolworth Park Road,next to Thorogoods ,who she rented the house from.She was a real character,and one of her talents was for brewing home made wines,and my dad said the rhubarb one could blow your head off! It was a good thing dad didnt drive,because he always came home from there in a very merry state!
July 27, 2009 at 11:19 am
Up early I’m afraid, comes with having remarried (3rd time) with two young kids ages 8 and 5 … I was one of the ones who resisted the temptation to emigrate, although some days I feel I ought to have cut and run the way our country’s currently being run into the ground.
Do you remember the corner grocer shop opposite Thorogoods and your gran’s on the corner of Tolworth Park Road and Bond Road just where the pillar box was? There was a cobblers and green grocers on the opposite corner and another grocer and news agents at the Ellerton Road end of this parade of shops? There was also a co-op store round the corner in Ellerton Road so three grocers in the matter of a 100 yards was quite amazing.
The shop was taken over by a very colourful elderly lady in the mid-1950’s; tough as old boots and swore like a trooper. Originally a fish-monger’s wife, she once told me the story of how her husband had inconveniently dropped down dead one busy morning in their fishmonger’s shop so she propped him up in the corner and carried on selling until things quietened down! With all the local competition and than the first dawn of the early supermarkets she had a tough time making ends meet and would think nothing of hurling a can of beans at a sales rep if he upset her when she was stressed out. I worked there for several years delivering groceries on a classic grocer’s bike and serving in the shop … along with SCGS, another of my life-changing learning experiences !!!
I seem to remember Rhubarb wine was a favourite home brew back in these days … seems it was easy and cheap to make and would blow your head just by sniffing the cork!
Going back to your first comment, what is quite cool, looking back through this site, is how well at lot of the pupils from SCGS at that time have done with their lives, and across a wifdw variety of fields. It really was a truly unique character-building experience, something that the Tiffins or KGS kids would simply never have been exposed to. Not sure whether it was the hotchpotch of buildings, the Railway Tavern across the road, the rear gardens and the escape route down the bank into town or the wildly diverse eccentricity of the teaching staff and for that matter many of the pupils. What ever it was they must have been doing something right!
July 27, 2009 at 1:21 pm
I remember Neil Holdaway’s attention to detail for he suggested we count the errors in a ‘Dig for Victory’ poster near the Ewell Road bridge.
July 27, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Glad to hear you stayed Malcolm,perhaps the others went abroad because the public scool boys got preferencial treatment over here? I do remember there were shops opposite grans house,but as i only really saw her on Sundays ,I never went into them,I was only 10 when she died in 1957,but my brother was 5 years older and he spent a lot of time with her,he would go fishing in the Thames and caught eels,and she would cook and jelly them!” I know what you mean about young children depriving you of sleep,we look after our 3 year old grandson 3 days a week,but he is on holiday at the moment and it is heaven! I agree with you about how well the old surbs have done,as my mum always said”the cream will always come to the top”.
July 27, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Does anyone remember the name of the school caretaker who lived in the cottage alongside the main gate? I seem to remember that he was a bit of a miserable s*d when he was on duty, but then who wouldn’t be with a crowd of kids like us around.
July 27, 2009 at 6:39 pm
bald guy with glasses -always wore a brown overall-don’t think I ever heard him speak!
July 28, 2009 at 11:04 am
Dear Richard – yes that was Rickard!
The house points system must have become a little more transparent (or less opaque) in my day because it was based on a variety of competitions such as house rugby, cricket and other sports (tennis, table tennis, I think) There was also an inter house Art competition; I submitted the same picture for a couple of years – on the third year Busby (the judge) disqualified it – he became suspicious the previous year that it was not a new piece and had secretly marked it on the reverse – I did not notice but he did! I lost Coutts a couple of house marks for that!
I also recall the rigmarole of the school uniform – lumpen felt type blazers from Bryants in Tolworth or Chessington that used to lose their shape after a week, especially elbows that grew huge bulges. Then there was the ritual of the gold braid around the blazer when becoming prefect – I am trying to work out whether it went all round the collar as well. The prefects with the gold braid looked like holiday camp reps – black coats in our case. But then the coolness of making senior prefect. No gold braid and you could get a proper man’s blazer of superior material. Could senior prefects remove the school badge as well? They seemed to look more like men or masters than pupils, just the school tie as a discreet sign of who they were. There were two styles of senior prefect in my day – grey flannels with turn-ups and black brogues or straight flannels with chelsea boots>
July 28, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Senior Prefects in Sports Jackets and Flannels? No wonder they had to move the school from St. Mark’s Hill! They probably looked very ‘grown up’ in civies and a leather satchel, or were they also allowed to carry their books in an Eddie Watkins style Khaki haverstack.
Yes, the famous gold braid did run completely around the collar & lapels.
July 28, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Malcolm- what do you mean ? “our country”?
Re V2s-my uncle was too lazy to get out of bed to go to the shelter -eventually decides discretion is the better part of valour and dives under the bed whereupon the ceiling comes down- and ceilings in those days were heavy.
Re Eric Clapton-an old Surb friend who went out with one of EC’s exes tells me that EC did not go to SCGS.
My theory– could the building in Ewell Road used as Hollyfield’s art annex have been the fire station’s stable block in a previous life-if one looks at google maps and points the little yellow man in the right direction the said building is right next to the relatively more recent fire station-my grandfather used to drive the horse drawn fire engine in Kingston at the turn of turn of the 18/19 century.
My pal also tells me that Ec and young lady mutually deciduing that relationship is not going anywhere moreor lees simultaneously send each other “Dear John” letters EC does with his whatever R&R stars doe with such things –girlfriend keeps hers and forty years on sells it on ebay for four figures.
I recently read the relevant page in EC’s autobiography and he doesn’t say he went to SCGS.
I had found the book in a charity shop and regrettably did not buy it.
July 28, 2009 at 6:28 pm
I don’t know if 35 was originaly a stable block Dave, but my mum told me that she used to go there for domestic science lessons,and she said she hated black leading the grate,that would have been in the mid 1920s,she went to the school down the Tolworth end of Ewell Road.
July 28, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Gentlemen,
I have submitted a number of messages to this site in recent week, but am concerned that they are getting through?? I have submitted both some comments and some questions – let me try again. Confirmation that you have at least seen my email would be appreciated.
First my comments:
I attended SCGS from 1965-1972 and as such was part of the last first year intake that attended the school at St. Mark’s Hill. I started in Sept 1965 and can remember catching the bus from my home in Chessington to Surbiton and getting off at the stop outside what was then Surbiton Odeon (now a Waitrose). I then had my daily walk up St. Mark’s Hill to the school. I also recall that the school’s playing fields at that time were located off Somerset Avenue in Hook necessitating a bus ride which, fortunately for me, took me almost home. As an aside, I still remember my first ‘Games’ lesson when I was introduced to the sport of rugby – a milestone in my life given that I was to spend the next 20 years playing the game to county level and on both sides of the Atlantic. We had split into groups based on houses (I was in Lovelace), with everyone wearing the appropriately coloured jersey, and were being shown the rudiments of the game by one of our teachers. Having mastered the art of passing we moved on to tackling at which point our teacher (young guy who taught Maths – can’t remember his name?) demonstrated said skill by tackling (needless to say) one of the smaller boys in his group. Unfortunately, he went someone overboard in his demonstration and succeeded in breaking the arm of the young lad whom he had selected – a boy by the name of John Stagg. I’ve never forgotten it! However, returning to my point, I can only remember spending one term at St. Mark’s Hill before we moved to Thames Ditton which is at odds with Ken’s recollection that the move took place in the summer of 1966.
Also – a comment on the stable block, which I recall was being used at the Prefects’ Common Room during the term I was at the old school which probably explains the profusion of cigarette packets Ken refers to.
I was always under the impression that EC had attended Hollyfield and that his only connection with SCGS was as a result of Hollyfied taking over the St. Mark’s Hill site when SCGS moved to Thames Ditton.
I recall the gold braid on the Prefects’ blazers when I started SCGS in 1965, but it had gone by the time I became a Prefect in 1971. Likewise when I became a Senior Prefect in 1972, the plain blazer had bitten the dust.
What about the wearing of caps? I remember failure to do so when travelling to and from school was an offence commonly picked up by Prefects and one for which ‘lines’ (usually due the next day) were a common punishment. I do, however, recall that in my very first assembly in the big old white house at St. Mark’s Hill in Sept 1965, the new Headmaster – Mr. Eric Waller – restricted the wearing of caps to just the first and second forms. Up until then I think the caps were compulsory up until the fifth form?? I can still remember some boys burning their caps on their last day as second formers. Any one have any comments/similar recollections?
Now my question:
Does anyone know the origins of the names of the four SCGS houses? I seem to remember there were some streets in the Surbiton area named Lovelace Gardens, Villiers Avenue and Egmont Avenue, but I can’t recall a Coutts ???, but where did these names come from? Where they former mayors, politicians…………? Anyone know the answer?
Keith
July 28, 2009 at 10:08 pm
Mrs Burkin was obviously not tweeny maid material-my Aunt used to polish the front steps with red cardinal polish to such a pitch that they were lethal.
Coutts was after the banking firm-Villiers was after the royalist family a scion of whom was killed on Villiers road during the civil war. the Dukes of Buckingham were members of the Villiers family- hence the pub.
July 29, 2009 at 6:15 am
I too recall making the annual trek to be equipped with the next year’s regulation school garb, although I was dragged down to Esher and I thought that the shop name was Bardwells. In practice the fit of a blazer was rather academic at a time when we were all going through a period of rapid growth, and cuffs that covered the knuckles in September might be halfway to the elbows by the following July. Growth might not always be uniform, either – at 16 I was 6 feet 2 inches tall with a 29 inch waist and 33 inch inside leg, which offered a challenge in purchasing trousers.
One shortcut that my mother discovered was that it was possible to purchase the school badge on a small square of cloth as a separate item which could be stitched onto an independently- purchased plain blazer, thereby overcoming to some extent the earlier-mentioned cost/quality issue with the regulation garment. Now I need help here, because there was also a period when the house colour was displayed as a stripe on the edge of the top pocket, but I really can’t remember whether that started or finished during my residency. In my case it was dealt with by sewing on an appropriately coloured ribbon which I think was also provided by the authorised outfitter. I don’t recall it applying during the sixth form, but I may be wrong.
As for the cap, yes, Mr. Doig required it to be worn up to and including the fifth form. There was a beneficial design change after the 58/59 year when a large blue ring on the top was eliminated. It was probably still better than being at Tiffins, whose boys were obliged to wear straw boaters in the summer term.
For the first couple of years I commuted by train from Hampton Court which was a prefect-free route so after boarding the train at Surbiton the cap could be safely rolled up and stuffed into a blazer pocket. An additional reason for this practice was that on one occasion I failed to do so, stuck my head out of the window (remember when trains had windows that opened?) and said cap sailed off and was never seen again.
July 29, 2009 at 10:23 am
No Dave ,my mum did not go into service,she was too busy looking after the children that my grandparents were fostering, and working at the laundry,which was behind Tolworth broadway. Our school uniform was also supposed to be purchased from Bryants, most people bought the ties and badges from there, but the colour burgundy,was a bit of a challenge, you have never seen so many variations on it in your life at school assemblies! The Duke of Buckingham was our Local pub, many a time I waited outside for dad to bring me a packet of crisps with a blue salt bag in it or one of those hard “dog” biscuits(arrowroot I think).
when they were digging in Villiers Road, I think in the 1960s, they found skeletons and helmets from the civil war battle, it is probably in the local museum now. Our school houses were Elgar (blue),Faraday(yellow),Tennyson(green),and Raeburn(red),and for house points we got credits and debits.
July 29, 2009 at 11:06 am
I was sure the move to Thames Ditton was in 66 but I now accept 1965 as the move; it’s funny how passage of time can play tricks on the mind. I took my driving test (by the assembly rooms) in July 1966 and I thought I had returned victorious to the old school grounds rather than Thames Ditton. Also I remember looking at the adverts for the world cup finals at the old school – seven quid for standing tickets to 3 group games then the knockout games. I only took the England group games package for 2 quid I think- what a regret now! I also recall the house colours as a flash above the breast pocket school badge and also I concur with the sentiment about having blazers imposed on me which I would grow into plus the reusable badge.
I think the EC business can be put to rest by this site now – a blurring of Hollyfield and SCGS by virtue of the common grounds of St Mark’s Hill. But it is surprising how many websites give EC potted history with this version of his schooling.
July 29, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Glad to learn that my recent email was received!
A quick comment on the coloured house flash above the breast pocket of the school blazer. I have a photograph of the Colts rubgy XV for the 1968-1969 season in which I note we were all sporting blazers with house flashes. I recall the ties were also different depending on your house, and likewise your wrap and your rubgy jersey. Also in the photograph is a very hair-challenged ‘Baz’ Hunt who I recall taught Latin and was apt to ’slipper’ boys in the class using a very tatty, old-fashioned plimsole that he carried around in his briefcase. He was also renowned for his use of the expression ‘Trouble at home, boy?’ seemingly being of the opinion that an inability to memorize Latin verb endings was a function of an unfavourable family dynamic rather than sheer idleness. While on the subject of rugby, I have very fond memories of my 7 years at SCGS during which time I hardly missed a game. I can recall the masters who looked after the teams as follows; Under 12 XV – Mr. Fry (Biology), Under 13 XV – Mr. Harris-Ide (English and Latin), Under 14 XV – Mr. ‘Nobby’ Hall (Gym), Colts XV – Mr. Hunt (Latin), 2nd XV – Mr. Mo Morris (I think? – Biology), 1st XV – Mr. Hodgeson (French) who took over from Mr. ‘Taffy’ Davis (Chemistry and Coutts House Master) who had run the 1st XV for many years (so I gather), but was prepared (reluctantly) to let Mr Hodgeson have a go. Does anyone recall these masters and have their own stories/recollections?
July 29, 2009 at 2:54 pm
Does that mean that I can claim a victory for Hollyfield in the E.C. affair,and as he and all the rest of us in the art group had passed our 13plus,does that put us on the same level as your school?
July 29, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Dear Ros – I think you can bask in the glory of Hollyfield school and it’s enduring and improving academic status as well as the EC matter!
In a previous message I said that, in my year of intake 1960, near miss 11+ pupils were taken in after interview with Doig. In the early 80s I bumped into Harris-Ide and baz Hunt in the Waggon and Horses; H-I had retired but Baz was at the new reincarnation of SCGS – the sixth form Esher College. I think it was Baz who told me that in the 1960s the writing was on the wall for SCGS in it’s then current format as a boys grammar school. The labour Govt were pushing for comprehensive schools and the Royal Borough of Kingston upon Thames did a deal with Surrey County Council to hive off SCGS out of the borough – This had a two fold purpose – RBK then had just sufficient grammar schools to accommodate the local 11+ pass rate (Kingston grammar school and Surbiton High School for girls being independent) with just Tiffin Boys and Tiffin girls as state grammar schools in the borough and RBK has managed to keep these in place. Meanwhile SCGS at Thames Ditton would eventually morph into A sixth form co – ed college when boys were stopped being taken in – what late 70s? This meant Elmbridge then had it’s own type of selective education school; for A levels only but now with some GCSE courses. This then left the St Mark’s Hill grounds vacant, which had only just been modernised, with the demolition of Aysgarth and Braemar and new blocks so Hollyfield was catapulted up the hill with the brief to become RBKs flagship comprehensive to satisfy central govt! I now see that Hollyfield is well regarded in the area with places oversubscribed. The state grammar schools (the Tiffins) thrive as well especdially as a House of lords ruling that RBK cannot confine places to local people and that outsiders to the Borough are eligible to compete for places. Meanwhile Esher college enjoys a similar reputation of excellence by being oversubscribed. So, poor old SCGS was caught in the middle – not the best boys grammar school in the area and not co-ed to cope with modern education thinking! But I would not have wanted to go anywhere else though!
Keith! I had forgotten that the tie was House coloured and I also forgot about the scarf which had house colours running through it. I think that’s why senior prefects looked so cool – plain black blazer – no badge and a simple tie of repeated Lion of St Mark logos with no House colouring.
July 29, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Thank you Ken, not bad for a girl who was born in a council house, and I got O level English,and my husband who went to Glyn Grammar did not. I knew there was a reason why I went out with grammar school boys!
July 29, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Dear Ros,
I remember Glyn Grammar school from playing them at rugby but I cannot remember where they are – is it over Croydon way perhaps?
SCGS could be described as the working class grammar school – I would anyway when I went there – a big proportion of my intake were from council estates and thus SCGS was truly in the spirit of ability rather than background – my Dad was in the met police and we lived in police accommodation until 1960 when they phased out “tied housing” and gave them generous cash allowances to go and buy their own places!
A couple of years ago I got on the top deck of a no 87 bus from Kingston Hill into Kingston, passing Tiffin Boys – the playground was full and I observed that the vast majority were Asian, including Sikhs, and Chinese (probably from the South Korean population in New Malden). Earlier in that week I had been in my Mum’s local newsagent in Tudor Drive, Ham, where the owners, Mr and Mrs Patel, were very excited about getting their daughter into Tiffin Girls. I think this entirely reflects different cultural attitudes to education these days – such differences not really in place in my day when education was highly regarded right across the social spectrum.
Reinforcing this view, in my opinion, is that Kingston is currently regarded as the premier Chav town in the UK (do a google on chav+town+kingston) with its emphasis on cheap retail consumerism, fast food outlets and violent night life! David Cameron talks about “Broken Britain” – I certainly think it has fragmented along easily identifiable fault lines, though.
July 29, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Ros,
Glyn Grammar was over near Epsom and Ewell. I can recall playing both rugby and cricket against them
Keith
July 29, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Yes that’s right Keith,sadly it has now come down in the world,a comprehensive now i think. The only sport my husband liked to play was tennis, and as for football, as he is 6 feet 4 inches he was always stuck in goal!I am afraid Ken that lots of Suffolk towns are going the same way as Kingston, it takes all the character out of them.I do’nt agree about being being working class at a grammar school,when my sister was at Tiffins,she wanted to do languages,but was told that you had to be in the Aor Bstream to do it, and her parents would never be able to afford to send her to university any way! I think the rest of us were much better off at Hollyfield.
July 29, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Dear Ros,
Re your sister – she went to the only state girls’ grammar school in the area (Tiffin girls) – Surbiton High School for girls being the independent one – in the case of the boys’ sector there was Kingston Grammar school ( I think they wore the straw boaters in the summer because of their rowing tradition) then Tiffin boys who had a strong Oxbridge connection then SCGS. So, by the time of the 60s, SCGS, third in line in the Borough as a pure boys school versus Hollyfield (co-ed with a grammar stream) then Hollyfield was much better placed to survive and blossom than SCGS in that time!
On a lighter note – I think SCGS should be credited with a major contribution to modern language! In my day the bright ones got put into the X stream (X for express) This long preceded the current RAP/gangsta speak vis a vis Xhibit as da main man in “pimp ma ride” on MTV! I think the world should be told!
July 29, 2009 at 10:35 pm
In previous messages I have relayed what my (younger) Esher based friends are having to do to keep up with education of their children – 6 grand a term plus add-ons to get the same education as I did at SCGS! it seems to all boil down to discipline – the parents at this school sign up to a non-violent but draconian discipline system with the parents incentivised cos they are paying through the nose!
Anyway, this particular school will accept those who have the right and modern credentials – Graham Le Saux (ex Chelsea FC) being a point in question – he was vilified (Robbie Fowler of Liverpool FC) for going on a boys’ weekend as being “queer”. Now John Terry is sniffing around the same school for his children – and now he is staying with Chelsea he probably will be welcomed with open arms! So it goes to show that money these days, rather than pure ability, carries more weight – JT’s relatives (mother or mother in-law and sister or sister in-law) were recently, allegedly, arrested/cautioned for shoplifting in nearby Weybridge shopping centre! This school is a main feeder for Cobham RFC (formerly Old Surbs RFC) – how times have changed!!
July 30, 2009 at 8:01 pm
Ken,
I was interested in your comment that ‘SCGS could be described as the working class grammar school’ and wondering if you were aware what criteria would have been used for determining which grammar school a boy went to having sucessfully passed the 11 plus. I attended St. Mary’s C/E Primary School, a small school (pulled down years ago) located about 200 yds from the entrance to Chessington zoo and attended by no more than 100 pupils. I, together with 2 other pupils, had the good fortune to be selected by our class teacher for ‘extra tuition’ such that we were prepped for the exam (something I think teachers would never get away with today). Two of us passed, but whereas I obtained a place at SCGS, my fellow passer was given a place at Tiffin boys from whence he went up to Oxford and became a successful playwright. Any idea how we ended up at different schools? Did Tiffin get the boys with better pass marks or did SCGS get the brighter sparks? Or was it the luck of the draw? I’d be interested in your (and anyone else’s) thoughts.
Keith
July 30, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Keith-if you look at my post of April 3 2009 in which I give a list of the class of ‘56 you will see that 9 boys went to SCGS from Latchmere Primary-I don’t remember anyone from that primary going to Tiffins-Iwould have presumed that we didn’t get high enough marks in the 11 plus-I myself only got in on a resit. Maybe it was where you came from and who your parents were- that was my father’s theory.
Sadly I didn’t appreciate what I had at SCGS-as I have said “education is wasted…….”
Never mind we seem to have survived.
July 31, 2009 at 3:40 am
I cannot give any hard facts about SCGS intake – only anecdote and snippets :-
As mentioned before, Old Tiffs have a subsection for their Oxbridge alumni which, to my mind, shows that they had sufficient successful candidates over the years. I don’t think SCGS had more than an occasssional Oxbridge entrant. I thought that Head Boy was chosen on the basis of Oxbridge potential – certainly in my time (60 -67) the only sporting type head Boy I can remember (and I stand to be corrected) was Bob Brittle; thereafter they seemed to be the best academic ones who made Head Boy.
In my year of intake there were several near miss 11+ pupils (after interview of parents with Doig) so Kingston was oversupplied with grammar school places for boys _ I doubt if Tiffin Boys took anyone other than 11+ passers. I moved to Kingston immediately after 11+ and was allocated to SCGS no argument. perhaps Tiffin boys had their own feeder schools – ie those schools that prepped the boys in the 11+ better than others such schools being semi exclusive I would imagine. Certainly to get into Tiffin Boys now is highly competitive with access from outside the borough to be accommodated.
July 31, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Are you all implying that selection to our lcal Grammar schools was based on class .In england,in the 50’s and 60’s,what an idea.I grew up in Hook.Went to Moore Lane Primary Junior Mixed.{I still love that name).Most of those who passed the 11 + went to SCGS,afew went to Glynn,and a few others went to Dorking.Of the girls ,most went to Roseberry in Epsom,although my sister went to Tiffins,I later had friends who went to Tiffins ,but none lived in our Predominently working class area.I do remember that when we took the 11 +,parents had to fill a form which they could list their choices of school in order from 1-3.I always thought that in order of preference SCGS would be No 4,after Wimbledon College.Tiffins and Kingston Grammar.A question for Keith Watling.Are you related to Snowy Watling? He was a great friend growing up .We worked at the Zoo together on Saturdays,earned enough money for a night out at Eel Pie Island.He was the first person I saw with a pair of Winkle Picker shoes,hand made from Stans in Battersea.
July 31, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Dear Dave,
I moved to latchmere catchment area (Tudor Drive) just after 11+ and just before SCGS. So I got to know some of the Latchmere alumni (mainly the Thorogate brothers). I heard about the Kongston and District primary schhols soccer competition which always seem to end up with latchmere and tolworth in the final. How did Latchmere get on over the years; the tolworth boys at SCGS seemed to crow a bit. I remember being told that the final was played at the old Richmond Rd ground of Kingstonian FC – A big pitch for under 11s!
Back to SCGS – I recall that we all started off doing Latin but only those who went into the Xpress stream carried on to O-level. I think this was to try and get a couple of Oxbridge candidates by A levels. But most Tiffin boys did latin to O level. By the time of the mid 60s when the explosion of new universities came about, then latin was not necessary for entrance, apart from Oxbridge still.
I did not know you could put down 1-3 for boys grammar schools from being out od the area. I suppose you had to be a brave family from working class background to put yourself up to Kingston grammar and the straw boater in the summer!
July 31, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Funny -Apart from my cousin who is 12 years older I
never knew a Tiffins boy. Looking back I think “hoi polloi” level declined with entry into the sixth form-not that I noticed at the time.
Richard -what is Dave Ashwell’s “green drink” and how is he? I fear the piccy I sent him may have been too much. I’m pleased to see his exhibition is still on the net.
I took on board your comments re health -exercise not quite up to speed -trying to work up courage to brave embarassment and go to gym.
Diet failure today-friend Helen finally seduced me with her chocolate cake-which should be on the list of banned substances!
Yeah -whoever chained Uncle Bill’s Railton to the portico ripped off the back bumper.
Anyone know what happened to “Holy Joe” Turner, the Art teacher and how did he get that nickname? One of the majority good guys.
July 31, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Hello Richard, nice to have you back again. You are not going to believe this but I also worked at the zoo, it was probably 1963/64, my friend Dot and I ran the refreshment kiosk nearest the entrance, we had great fun, but I remember bank holidays were exhausting, we lived on ice cream and hot dogs, because we didn’t like the staff canteen! Did you go to the Christmas parties in the big house?I also want the recipe for the green drink!
July 31, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Green Drink;apple,ginger.carrot.parsley,kale or cabbage.celery.Put in a centrifuge type juicer to extract the pulp,drink the juice.You will live for ever! Ros were you part of he group that sat on the wall next to the church yard by the Kenya coffe house? I was never invited to the xma party at the zoo,but you must have worked there with Dave Acomb,his first real job following SCGS was there.
July 31, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Before I forget.Fred Fernyhough was not an old surb.He did play rugby for the Old Boys.The Old Boys would extend an invitation for any teacher so inclined toplay for them.Allan Bolt was another ,in fact he ended up refeering for the Old Boys lower teams for many years.
July 31, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Apropos friend Helen’s chocolate cake -her family called it “cardiac cake”-sort of “weapon of mass infarction” !!
August 1, 2009 at 9:05 am
We often used to meet in Bentalls silver cafe for a milk shake or ice cream soda,or for a coffee in a cafe by Kingston railway bridge Richard. The green drink sounds as if it would make a nice stir fry, or a soup, and it would give you the added bonus of all that roughage! We only really saw the lads who delivered our supplies at the kiosk,and we never seemed to bother with surnames,I remember one chap called Rod and he drove a red sports car! Yes I know and he was!!
August 1, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Richard,
I am not related to Snowy Watling and have never heard of that nickname within the family. My father was Harry ‘Jim’ Watling who lived in Chessington for most of his 82 years and had a lifetime association with Chessington Cricket Club whose playing fields are still located just past the Zoo on the Leatherhead Road towards Hook.
Regarding Ken’s comment about doing Latin at SCGS, I can confirm that the subject was compulsory when I started at the school in 1965. I recall being taught by Kenneth Bidmead – a former major of somewhere I believe? I also recall that at the end of the first year, boys who were struggling with Latin were forced to drop it and required to take Technical Drawing in the second year as a replacement (can’t recall the name of the master who took the TD classes?). Accordingly, there was something of a stigma associated with doing TD because it meant that you weren’t bright enough to do Latin. I’m not sure if this situation prevailed at other grammar schools, but I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact (so I’ve been told) that the UK did not produce a good crop of engineers in the 80s and 90s. I’d be interested to hear comments from others – especially any engineers amongst us.
Keith
August 1, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Keith-poor old “Slug” Rigden (before your time -he retired in 1963-lovely man) had to suffer my inane attempts to appreciate latin- I date my surrender to the moment I realised there were 36 different ways of spelling big!! As you off I went to learn the intricacies of technical drawing at the knee (if you remember he was well over 6ft) of “Holy Joe” Turner. I did eventually became a structural engineering draughtsman-funnily enough in about 1995 I had to use for the first time ever something “Holy Joe” had taught me in 1958 to show the autocad operator how to do it!!
I know of Old Surbs who became engineers but whether they skipped latin??.
AndyStewart, a latin scholar, clad in motorcycle gear once metaphorically tweaked the nose of a rather snotty “lunchbox” and his family by giving a near perfect translation of a latin inscription in a church we were visitng.
Other than interest value I personally have never found latin to be of any use
I believe that in the last 5 years a”Times ” correspondent, a latin scholar, in an obscure part of central asia found that the only local with whom he could converse was the schoolmaster also a latin scholar.
With hindsight I regard learning latin as part of my fairly well rounded education which I still try to keep going.
August 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Richard-green drink looks interesting -how about the proportions??
August 2, 2009 at 12:18 am
I actually requested in my parent-teacher interview at the end of the third form year that I be allowed to study technical drawing, and I well remember my house master, “Zorro” Zetter, firmly telling my parents that I was in the A stream and therefore it was more important that I continue with Latin.
The eventual result was, once I commenced a technical education as part of my Hawkers apprenticeship, I had to spend two terms of evening classes at KCFE to gain an ONC in drawing so that I would qualify for the OND in engineering classes in which I was enrolled for the rest of the week!
I finally dumped Latin in the fifth form when Economics was offered as an alternative following the arrival of “Buddy” Holly, a most enthusiastic and stimulating young teacher who encouraged the noisiest forms of active participation in his classes.
As for the Latin knowledge I did acquire, well, I never did meet an ancient Roman on an oil rig.
August 2, 2009 at 9:41 am
Richard C-wrong industry mate -you should have gone into olive oil about 2000 years ago!
Even tho I had GCE Technical Drawing I still had to repeat it for ONC and then again as part of my Civils degree-don’t ask. Any way drawing is how I earned my crust.
I did C&G Autocad at the beginning of my 2nd half century.
Seriously -I regard any random bit of information as the cigarette you put behind your ear for later -might come in handy-even 37 years later!
August 2, 2009 at 1:46 pm
“Nihile est – in vita priore ego imperator romanus fui……….”
Useful little phrase that confuses the hell out of the Emiratis, and I use it often ( Thanks to Google not Ken Bidmead).
Another perhaps more memorable one, out here in Dubai might be ” puella in longa herba est”, but reporting it would probably result in the poor girl getting arrested, then deported for immorality
August 2, 2009 at 5:33 pm
“puer magnum in puella est” would get her into even more trouble -ok for one year 1956-57?
Is there really “longa herba” in Dubai-don’t get confused with “longa vipera”!
An Italian engineer with whom I worked was always a bit suspicious about “illegitimis non carborundum”.
You weren’t the one doing naughty things with his horse were you ?- now that could get you into trouble with the “Horse Rangers of the Common wealth”.
August 2, 2009 at 9:57 pm
I too subscribe to the view that there is no such thing as useless information – but was it worth spending four periods a week for twelve terms to acquire it? Another fringe subject that was fed to us in the sixth form that I have had much more use out of was Scientific German, and I wish that had been started much earlier.
Incidentally, during one year on entering the form room on Monday mornings we would find Greek on the blackboard. Who was teaching Greek, and to whom?
I regret to admit that I formed the uncharitable opinion that Latin was persisted with because the school had a number of masters who would have been out of a job had everyone who wanted to quit Latin been allowed to do so. Did Bidmead or “Pee Wee” Hunt ever teach anything else?
August 2, 2009 at 10:21 pm
“Slug” Rigden taught history as well as latin -he and I had much greater rapport with the former than the latter-I’m glad that I showed him I wasn’t a complete waste of his time. We once asked him what he did in the holidays and he told us that he visited many of the historical sites that occured in what he taught us. I now find myself doing the same thing.
“Geoff” Harris-Ide taught English as well as latin.
Maybe in their youth you had to have latin to go to uni to read any degree.
“Wilf” Sing taught other languages I think.
August 3, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Richard,
I was interested to learn that ‘Zorro’ Zetter (taught History, right?) had been a House Master. I think that during my era (1965-1972), ‘Taffy’ Davies (Chemistry) looked after Coutts, ‘Bunny’ Warren (Physics) had Egmont, Warmsley (Maths) started off looking after Lovelace, but after he retired was succeeded by Mr. Doig – aka ‘Ginger’ (History) while ‘Baz’ Hunt had Villiers. Can you or others confirm? House assemblies were also held on Thursday mornings I seem to recall.
Keith
August 3, 2009 at 11:25 pm
A slip of the mouse, Keith. I meant form master, the one who took the register in the morning.
August 4, 2009 at 4:20 pm
I attended SCGS from 1945-53. I am amazed at the lack of recall by all the contributors above. I do know a lot of detail about the School in those first years after it became a State School. I knew most of the masters mentioned & a few others too. I was House Captain of Egmont 1952/53 and Bert Forward was the Housemaster at that time. I experienced the transition from AGF Willis to Doig who came from Rokeby and was generally regarded as a disaster by us seniors at the time. I have just mentioned a few things and will try and find time to put the rest on paper. If Alison Burn should read this, I knew both her father, Frank, and her mother, Myrna, well. I went to school on the train from New Malden to Surbiton for at least 7 years and went on and studied Architecture with him at Kingston. If Alison wishes to contact me through my e-mail address, I shall be happy to have a chat about her father, whom I last saw in 1997. I now live in Cornworthy, Devon, after spending all my working life outside the country.
August 4, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Richard,
Yep – that’s more like it – couldn’t imagine ‘Zorro’ being a House Master. Funny little man, I recall, who had summarized everything you needed to know to pass O’level History in an extensive handout. However, he didn’t expect you to learn everything, but rather sought your input as to which parts you were interested in. He then advised if learning your ‘preferred section’ was sufficient to get you through the exam.
By far the better History teacher was a master named Mr. Doig (not related to the former headmaster) who had a limited head of ginger hair – hence his nickname Ginger. Great guy and a great teacher who always taught wearing a gown – ran the Under 13 cricket XI during my time (65-72) and became House Master of Lovelace sometime during that period.
Keith
August 4, 2009 at 10:08 pm
What do you mean Mr Church?-lack of recall indeed!
“I have only just begun to recall” -I think I know who I’m plagiarising -anyone care to confirm?
Keith-I vaguely remember ” Ginger” Doig -must have been in my last year. “Zorro” was more my era- A nice man – he put up with a lot. The more I look at this site the more I think what a great bunch of people (most) teachers were.
To spend 3 years reading a subject you adore followed by 40 years trying to enthuse a bunch of generally unappreciative oiks to see what you mean-they must have had patience in spades.
August 5, 2009 at 11:24 am
David,
Couldn’t agree more with your comment that we had a great bunch of teachers at SGCS. Although my era (65-72) was after yours (I think?), you may recall some of the teachers whom I remember as being especially caring and likeable: ‘Taffy’ Davies who taught Chemistry and was House Master of Coutts – he was a graduate of Bristol University and had run the 1st rugby XV for many years although he stepped down during my era to make way for a new, younger guy named John Hodgeson who taught French. I think Taffy never really got to grips with the changes the school went through in the 60’s as it moved from its formal, public school practices (ie caps, prefects, house system, masters wearing gowns, public canings) to the more relaxed system under Eric Waller that saw it gradually morph into a Sixth Form College in the 70’s. Another one was ‘Bomber’ Lancaster (French) with whom I had a lot of contact on a account of our shared passion for cricket. He ran the school 1st X1 of which I was captain for my last two years. He was simply a wonderful man – not sure what he was like at teaching French as I was never in his class, but either while either practising with us in the nets or umpiring our matches he was a delight. Last, but not least, was ‘Jock’ Lonsdale (also French) a Scot with a true passion for teaching and an ability to exert a class presence that ensured attention without fear – unlike ‘Gus’ Hillier (Deputy Head and Maths) whose teaching style was intimidating to the point of being inhibitory to learning. Someone else in these pages has mentioned the rumour that the Japs had done something to him during WW II – a story that was around during my era. Anyone else have any recollections of these guys?
Keith
August 5, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Keith – I was SCGS 1956-1964. Idon’t remember Lancaster being called “Bomber